Re: Identity politics

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Mr Man
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by Mr Man »

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Mr Man

Deceit is indeed the best you got. And that's why your moral highground doesn't exist.
I guess you don't see the irony there.
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Aloka
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by Aloka »

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Aloka,

I mentioned above that the left is spliting into "progressives" and true liberals. But right now "progressives" are in charge of the left because calling dissentung leftists racists bigots homophobes etc is an excelent tactic to silence the adversaries. The fight is between left conservatives (progressives) and left libertarians (true liberals).

To be honest I don't really know which part of the world you're refering to in connection with "the fight". I live in the UK, where do you live ?


.
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Mkoll
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by Mkoll »

Paul Davy wrote:...
:goodpost:

Nice to have you back, Paul.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
SarathW
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by SarathW »

"mating between groups (leading to more hybrid vigor). ""

===========
This is a sure-fire way to eliminate identity politics. ;)


http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 58#p359253" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Bundokji
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by Bundokji »

Modus.Ponens wrote:I'm sorry Retro for turning this into politics debate. I'll try and stay quiet.
I personally enjoyed reading your input in this thread, and I think there is a lot of truth in what you said.

Non-attachment to views does not mean not being truthful, or not calling spade a spade just because its politically incorrect.

If we take women as an example, in the west, the term misogyny is used to silence people, and in Muslim countries, the word honour is used! Even though the value system is completely different in each society, but their ways of silencing/oppressing any opposition is exactly the same.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Aloka
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by Aloka »

Bundokji wrote: If we take women as an example, in the west, the term misogyny is used to silence people, and in Muslim countries, the word honour is used! Even though the value system is completely different in each society, but their ways of silencing/oppressing any opposition is exactly the same.

So you have experience of the whole of the western world, "women ..in the west" and the various reasons why the word misogyny is used, do you, Mohammed ?

.
Last edited by Aloka on Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SarathW
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by SarathW »

I have experienced or observed the following.
- Tamil minority discriminating major Sinhalease
- Christian minority discriminating major Buddhist
- Women gang up against men in the work place.

It is the nature of the human to flock with the same kind or the people with same ideas.
I like Dhamma Wheel in preference to attending to a party with my friends.
The damage is caused when any group use their identity to supress the other group.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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SDC
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Re: Identity politics

Post by SDC »

Moderator Note: This topic has been split from the original and is now a general discussion regarding "Identity Politics". Despite this being in the lounge all participants should keep the TOS in mind while posting.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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samseva
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Re: Identity politics

Post by samseva »

SDC wrote:Moderator Note: This topic has been split from the original and is now a general discussion regarding "Identity Politics". Despite this being in the lounge all participants should keep the TOS in mind while posting.
Discrimination, I say! :smile:
SarathW
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by SarathW »

No divide and rule!
;)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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tiltbillings
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by tiltbillings »

Modus.Ponens wrote:Tilt

what is rightist about my position? You have not proven your contentions. And your style is more vicious than ever: "Are you a racist? Damdifino."

Really classy tiltbillings. Really classy...
Classy? Well, thank you for saying. As for your rightist stance, that is a point you have made for yourself. Nothing I need add here.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

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Bundokji
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by Bundokji »

Aloka wrote:
Bundokji wrote: If we take women as an example, in the west, the term misogyny is used to silence people, and in Muslim countries, the word honour is used! Even though the value system is completely different in each society, but their ways of silencing/oppressing any opposition is exactly the same.

So you have experience of the whole of the western world, "women ..in the west" and the various reasons why the word misogyny is used, do you, Mohammed ?

.
Sometimes our reactions to different opinions says a lot about our true intentions to support a particular group. The knee-jerk reaction can be very revealing of something very unhealthy. For example, feminism can reflect a well-developed mind, and in some cases, it can reflect a deep sense of inferiority, or the desire to impress. How can we tell the difference between the two? by the way they react to people who don't share the same beliefs.

Not everyone who calls herself a liberal is a genuine one. Identity politics can be misused, all in my opinion.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Aloka
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Re: Identity politics and 21st century Theravada

Post by Aloka »

Bundokji wrote:
Aloka wrote:
Bundokji wrote: If we take women as an example, in the west, the term misogyny is used to silence people, and in Muslim countries, the word honour is used! Even though the value system is completely different in each society, but their ways of silencing/oppressing any opposition is exactly the same.

So you have experience of the whole of the western world, "women ..in the west" and the various reasons why the word misogyny is used, do you, Mohammed ?

.
Sometimes our reactions to different opinions says a lot about our true intentions to support a particular group. The knee-jerk reaction can be very revealing of something very unhealthy. For example, feminism can reflect a well-developed mind, and in some cases, it can reflect a deep sense of inferiority, or the desire to impress. How can we tell the difference between the two? by the way they react to people who don't share the same beliefs.

Not everyone who calls herself a liberal is a genuine one. Identity politics can be misused, all in my opinion.
That doesn't actually answer my question, which was related to me wondering about how you feel able to comment about women in the west and about how the term misogyny is used in the west, when you aren't actually a westerner and live in the middle east yourself, Mohammed.


But....whatever. I don't think I've much more to say in this topic. :shrug:
Bundokji
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Re: Identity politics

Post by Bundokji »

Aloka wrote:That doesn't actually answer my question, which was about how you feel able to comment about women in the west and about how the term misogyny is used in the west, when you aren't actually a westerner and live in the middle east yourself, Mohammed.


But....whatever. I don't think I've much more to say in this topic. :shrug:
I lived in Australia for more than six years, and i did not answer your question because i did not feel it was addressing the message i was trying to convey, hence i thought it would be more fruitful to explain further.

Anyway, I also dont have much more to say in this topic :shrug:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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DNS
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Re: Identity politics

Post by DNS »

Speaking of the Black Lives Matter movement, that is an example of where identity politics sometimes leads to misinterpretations and misunderstandings. See this video:



A U.S. presidential candidate is booed when he says "all lives matter, white lives matter, black lives matter." At first glance it might appear there is nothing wrong with what he said. And conservatives were upset that he got booed. Certainly all lives matter, so why should he get booed?

UC-Berkely professor Judith Butler explained it here:
"When some people rejoin with 'All Lives Matter' they misunderstand the problem, but not because their message is untrue. It is true that all lives matter, but it is equally true that not all lives are understood to matter, which is precisely why it is most important to name the lives that have not mattered, and are struggling to matter in the way they deserve," Butler said in an interview with The New York Times. "If we jump too quickly to the universal formulation, 'all lives matter,' then we miss the fact that black people have not yet been included in the idea of 'all lives.'"
CNN article
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