Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

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suriyopama
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Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:06 am

Nakhom Pathom, Thailand. 11. December 2013 at 3PM. Several kutis (the huts where the monks sleep) of Wat Onoi have been burned by a gang of motorists carrying bottles of gasoline.

When the red shirts gathered at Rajamangala Stadium at the end of November in a pro-government demonstration, their leaders publicly threatened through the PA that Luang Pu Buddha Isara, the Abbot of Wat Onoi, would pay the consequences for supporting the anti-government demonstrators. Since that day, gangs of motorbikes and cars with red-shirts, some of them carrying guns, are pestering around and inside the premises of Wat Onoi every day and night. The Police is not responding to the calls of help (they are not helping the people in conflicts related to red-shirts, as with the incidents at the Ramkhamhaeng University)

Luang Pu Buddha Isara has been criticizing the corruption of the government and the passivity of the police with corrupted monks (like the case of Nen Kham, where he personally presented evidences to the DSI). In that sense, he is like the successor of Luang Por Maha Boowa. Maha Bua severely criticized the corruption of the former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and Buddha Issara is criticizing the corruption of the heirs of the Shinawatra clan.

Image
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More pictures at Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/buddha.isara/posts/10152045598508446


Red Shirts gathering at the door of Wat Onoi, demanding the abbot not criticize the government:
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Bags containing fecal matter are thrown to the monastery
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More pictures:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152016989843446.1073741869.257455723445&type=1
Last edited by suriyopama on Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:40 am, edited 7 times in total.

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cooran
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby cooran » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:14 am

This is very disturbing. May the situation calm down, and may all beings be safe.

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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gavesako
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby gavesako » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:11 pm

Recently we have seen Thai monks taking sides in the political conflict. In 2010, some "red shirt" monks joined the protests in Bangkok and have drawn criticism for their un-monk-like behaviour, even using weapons. Now, different monks are supporting the opposite side:

Thai monks cooking food for protesters BKK.jpg
Thai monks cooking food for protesters BKK.jpg (88.22 KiB) Viewed 700 times


They are Dhammayut forest monks, probably from some branch monastery of Luangta Maha Boowa who has criticized Thaksin and called him a "Devadatta who will destroy Thailand". Normally cooking food would be against the Vinaya rules.
:stirthepot:
Bangkok people support the protesters with donations:
"My aunt donated 100K baht for dried food and ingredient to this group of monks to cook food for protesters ka."

The Samaritan Monk:
http://asiancorrespondent.com/116733/pi ... protester/

Luang Pu Buddha Issara declares his support for overthrowing Thaksin regime:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/lifestyle/fo ... d-in-sight
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Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Mkoll
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby Mkoll » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:36 pm

cooran wrote:This is very disturbing. May the situation calm down, and may all beings be safe.

With metta,
Chris

May this be so.

Metta.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Mr Man
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby Mr Man » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:02 pm

What is happening in Thailand at the moment is very sad. Fascistic forces led by Suthep Thaugsuban are trying to remove the one person one vote system from Thailand and are trying to implement are dictatorship where the majority do not have a say in who controls the country.

This is the same Suthep who was a deputy PM in the unelected Govt. of Abhisit, which was responsible for the shooting of over 90 demonstrators in Bangkok. And also the same Suthep who caused the collapse of the Chuan Govt with the Sor Por Kor land grab scandal.

The country is being torn apart.

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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby chownah » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:30 pm

The government has charged Suthep with crimes pursuant to the deaths of demonstrators as he was the person who was most directly responsible for the actions. The police have a warrant for his arrest. Yesterday Suthep attended a high profile meeting with the military to discuss the current situation....it was televised....a high police official was invited to attend but did not show up......it is understood that the police declined to attend because then they probably should arrest Suthep.

I'm posting this so that people here can get a better idea about the structure of Thai society. The laws don't really apply to rich and powerful people, especially if they buy in to the military's agenda.....

Also in fact there have been something like 18 coups or attempted coups in the last 80 years or so which shows clearly that historically any gov't exists completely at the whim of the military.

Also, there are lots of dirty tricks done for political reasons. For example, I don't know for sure but it very well might not be red shirts who attacked the wat....it may be some people opposed to the red shirts trying to get the red shirts in trouble......but I want to stress that I really don't know.....
chownah

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suriyopama
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:36 pm

chownah wrote:Also, there are lots of dirty tricks done for political reasons. For example, I don't know for sure but it very well might not be red shirts who attacked the wat....it may be some people opposed to the red shirts trying to get the red shirts in trouble......but I want to stress that I really don't know.....
chownah


My wife was there. No doubt that they were red shirts. The same motorbikes and guys that keep pestering every day and night

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Mr Man
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby Mr Man » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:58 pm

Personally suriyopama, I find it rather distasteful that you bring your political propaganda in support of a fascistic and un-democratic forces to this forum. Do you remember the six unarmed civilians shot in Wat Pathum? http://www.bangkokpost.com/lite/topstories/363288/favicon.ico.

Any right minded Bangkok resident should be deeply ashamed of what has transpired over the last few weeks and is continuing to unfold.

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robertk
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby robertk » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:08 pm

it was truly horrifying how the military -with Abhisit and Suthep -at the helm of the democrat government -shot down the red shirt protestors in 2010.
I still feel ashamed that I didn't try to do sonething , anything at all. I could see the military snipers with their high powered scoped rifles setup behind sandbags with spotters. Tthe protestors were too far away of course to be visible.
They were gunned down like rats, day by day, while the "good people", the elite, the yellow shirts in Bangkok hailed the killers as their deliverers.

my prediction Suthep and Abhisit will never see a day in jail.

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gavesako
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby gavesako » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:16 pm

To be fair, Thaksin's government that the protesters are trying to overthrow also does not have a very clean human rights record:

Lest we forget: His "war on drugs" saw 2,873 Thais dead in a matter of three months, from February to April, 2003. The victims included whole families, women, children and old people. In many cases, bodies were left out in the open in an almost ritualistic public display, to be photographed by an all too eager local press. An investigative report by the UK's Sunday Times, in 2008, said: "Police and local authorities drew up so-called blacklists of drug suspects which were submitted to the Ministry of Interior." The Times obtained an official letter sent by the ministry to provincial governors, explaining the three ways to remove names from the lists: "Arrest, extrajudicial killing or loss of life [death for various reasons]. Drug dealers are traitors to the nation. We have to get rid of them. Don't give them mercy." ...
When secretary-general Kofi Anan nominated a rapporteur to investigate these gross human rights abuses, Thaksin's angry response was "the UN is not my father". Other international human rights organisations denounced the "war" as one of the worst cases of human rights abuse in recent times. Eventually, the UN Commission on Human Rights asked the Thai government to explain some 23 cases of abuse from mass killings to deaths and disappearances of rights defenders, like lawyer Somchai Neelapaijit.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... t-humanity


However, prominent social activist monk Ajahn Paisal Visalo (former student leader in the 1970s) already warned that although overthrowing the Thaksin government is good, we should be careful that it does not get replaced by another regime that is even worse than the previous one.

Certainly the style and tone of the rhetoric used are pretty awful:

The goals Suthep Thaugsuban aims for are clear, at least the ones he announces from the stage. The means to achieve those goals are muddier than Saen Saep canal at low tide.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/lite/topstor ... sin-regime

:guns:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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suriyopama
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:20 am

Mr Man wrote:Personally suriyopama, I find it rather distasteful that you bring your political propaganda in support of a fascistic and un-democratic forces to this forum.


I do not understand what you are saying, because I can not find where have I supported such things, and I feel very sorry for your distastefulness. I am only pointing facts (the arsons at Wat Onoi and the reasons behind the attackers), and I am supporting it with pictures and the testimony of visual witness.

I could start pointing pictures of how the Rid Shirts terrorized Bangkok in 2010 but, contrarily to what you say, I am not here to bring propaganda. I just wanted to show those particular events that happened at Wat Onoi because they have not been covered by the international media, and they are related to a buddhist monastery. That’s all.
Last edited by suriyopama on Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:47 am

After switching off the computer I have gone to sit down in meditation, but I am not able to calm down. My mind is very disturbed with the thoughts about your claim that I am bringing propaganda in support of fascism to this forum. Could you please help me by quoting where have I wrote such fascist propaganda? Sincerely, if I have really said those terrible things that you claim, I would like to be educated and rectify it. But right now I am not able to see it.

:shrug:

Thank You

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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby chownah » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:47 am

suriyopama wrote:
chownah wrote:Also, there are lots of dirty tricks done for political reasons. For example, I don't know for sure but it very well might not be red shirts who attacked the wat....it may be some people opposed to the red shirts trying to get the red shirts in trouble......but I want to stress that I really don't know.....
chownah


My wife was there. No doubt that they were red shirts. The same motorbikes and guys that keep pestering every day and night

Are you saying that your wife saw the people set fire to the buildings and throw the excrement and that she can identify them as people she saw demonstrating in front of the temple? If she can identify them then did she immediately go to the police and report them?
chownah

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suriyopama
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:04 am

Files are already on the police. Waiting for response.

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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:57 am

Hi Suriyopama,
suriyopama wrote:After switching off the computer I have gone to sit down in meditation, but I am not able to calm down. My mind is very disturbed with the thoughts about your claim that I am bringing propaganda in support of fascism to this forum. Could you please help me by quoting where have I wrote such fascist propaganda? Sincerely, if I have really said those terrible things that you claim, I would like to be educated and rectify it. But right now I am not able to see it.

I think many of us are saddened about the events in Thailand. I was in Ang Thong with my partner's family during Songkran 2010, before the shooting of Red Shirt protesters that Robert spoke of above. My partner's brother is a policeman, and during that period was sent to Bangkok several times. As you can imagine, this was very worrying for him, since he may well have ended up in a situation where he had to injure or kill protesters (not to mention the risk to him personally).

There are no winners in this violence. I am appalled by the violence that you report, perpetrated by people you have identified as red shirts. I am also appalled by the violence I have seen posted on Youtube and elsewhere, identified as perpetrated by yellow shirts.

I think that the negative reaction that you are seeing is from some readers interpreting (I trust misinterpreting!) your statements as support for violent action on one side, rather than as condemnation of the particular violence that your wife witnessed.

:anjali:
Mike

chownah
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby chownah » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:08 am

suriyopama wrote:Files are already on the police. Waiting for response.

Are you saying that your wife did in fact see the people setting the fires and throwing the excrement and identified them by name to the police? Are these people local people? How many other people were witness to this?.....it happened at 3pm, right?
chownah

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suriyopama
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:12 am

Thank you for your comments, mikenz66. Of course I condemn all kind of violence that happens at any place, perpetrated by any one, not only this particular action. :smile:

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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:58 pm

I’ve just arrived from a half-day retreat and Dhamma talk with Ajahn Pasanno at BIA (Buddhadasa Indapano Archives) in Bangkok. It has been like the perfect gift at the perfect time. :smile: It is true that sometimes the best insights come in the middle of a storm rather than under idyllic conditions.

I know how was my mind when I decided to share that particular information, I know how was my mind when I was unexpectedly accused of spreading fascist propaganda, I know how my mind is now, and I am at ease with all that. :meditate:

Regarding what was on the mind of those of you who decided to start posting about other sad events that happened few years ago, or to accuse me of spreading fascist propaganda, that is completely out of my control or competence. I cannot help you but wishing that you can also investigate the root of your toughts and the conditions of your minds.

Metta for all.

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Mr Man
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby Mr Man » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:48 pm

suriyopama, "Propaganda is a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of the community toward some cause or position by presenting only one side of an argument. Propaganda statements may be partly false and partly true" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda. In my opinion your initial post omits the whole context of what has been happening in Thailand.

Luang Pu Buddha Isara has been at the demonstrations in Bangkok. He has said that he would take over as the anti-government protest leader if Suthep was arrested http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/382277/luang-pu-buddha-isara-says-he-ll-take-over-if-suthep-arrested.

Academics brand people's council 'fascism' http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/384171/academics-brand-people-council-fascism

suriyopama, please accept my apologies if I misjudged your intention.

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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby lyndon taylor » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:06 am

I thought the prime minister and the Red Shirts were the ones that supported Dhammakaya, at least that's what another thread intimated, I thought.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John


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