Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

alan wrote:I'm about as liberal as you can get as far as American politics are concerned, but let's face it--by now, everyone knows electronic media is surveilled.
This guy made a big fuss, wasted his future, and accomplished nothing. Seems more like a loser than a hero.

So if Ghandi were to be crushed by the English and fail in the independence of India, he would be nothing but a loser?

PS: I know Snowden is not Ghandi. Just an analogy.

Without surveillance on its own citizens how could nations neutralize internal terrorist threats or combat well-organized crime?

This is quite ironic when the current U.S. government (since the 1860s) has been and is the most organized crime syndicate on earth. Lincoln put an end to de jure government in the united States when in March of 1861 the Congress adjourned sine die (from the Latin "without day;" means "without assigning a day for a further meeting or hearing"), and has never since then re-adjourned under law. The U.S. has been run under Executive Emergency Rule ever since (something that is not in the Constitution and is therefore unlawful). What we have is a de facto federal government which operates outside the Constitution. The U.S. federal government is run by a corporate elite, long since having been unaccountable to the People.

Those brave enough to look into the real history of America (and not the propaganda taught in the Public schools) will easily be able to confirm this for themselves.

IanAnd wrote:

Without surveillance on its own citizens how could nations neutralize internal terrorist threats or combat well-organized crime?

This is quite ironic when the current U.S. government (since the 1860s) has been and is the most organized crime syndicate on earth. Lincoln put an end to de jure government in the united States when in March of 1861 the Congress adjourned sine die (from the Latin "without day;" means "without assigning a day for a further meeting or hearing"), and has never since then re-adjourned under law. The U.S. has been run under Executive Emergency Rule ever since (something that is not in the Constitution and is therefore unlawful). What we have is a de facto federal government which operates outside the Constitution. The U.S. federal government is run by a corporate elite, long since having been unaccountable to the People.

Those brave enough to look into the real history of America (and not the propaganda taught in the Public schools) will easily be able to confirm this for themselves.

And what I find ironic, dear Ian, is that intelligent people like you believe in this anemic conspiratorial drivel. It beggers belief.
If the political situation in the united states is so bad then may I suggest you do something about it. Afterall, it is a representative and responsible democracy not a totalitarian state.

Ben wrote: is that intelligent people like you believe in this anemic conspiratorial drivel. It beggers belief.

Not at all. And with the continued browning of America -- and now with gay marriage -- the anemic conspiratorial drivel is only going to get worse.

I would have expected more enlightened responses!!!!

lyndon taylor wrote:I would have expected more enlightened responses!!!!

And what would a "more enlightened response" look like?

Perhaps comparing it to 1984, and how, while they claim it is only being used against terrorists now, they have the infastructure to spy on anyone and everyone they please, in the future even buddhists could be the target, or fringes of either political parties, depending on who's in charge. It sets a very bad precedent for free speech, some thing increasingly the courts are ruling is not a right anymore.

lyndon taylor wrote:Perhaps comparing it to 1984, and how, while they claim it is only being used against terrorists now, they have the infastructure to spy on anyone and everyone they please, in the future even buddhists could be the target, or fringes of either political parties, depending on who's in charge. It sets a very bad precedent for free speech, some thing increasingly the courts are ruling is not a right anymore.

What do you think is actually being done?

tiltbillings wrote:

lyndon taylor wrote:Perhaps comparing it to 1984, and how, while they claim it is only being used against terrorists now, they have the infastructure to spy on anyone and everyone they please, in the future even buddhists could be the target, or fringes of either political parties, depending on who's in charge. It sets a very bad precedent for free speech, some thing increasingly the courts are ruling is not a right anymore.

What do you think is actually being done?

I don't think people actually know what is being done and this is one of the problems. I would speculate that large databases are being built profiling the citizenship and as tax payer I'm not convinced that this is the best use of my money or the best method for dealing with terrorism, crime etc. I would also imagine that information is used to help certain groupings vested interests and agendas.

Mr Man wrote: I don't think people actually know what is being done and this is one of the problems. I would speculate that large databases are being built profiling the citizenship and as tax payer I'm not convinced that this is the best use of my money or the best method for dealing with terrorism, crime etc. I would also imagine that information is used to help certain groupings vested interests and agendas.

In other words, you have not really been reading what has been written about what is going on. There a fair amount of good info out there.

tiltbillings wrote:

Mr Man wrote: I don't think people actually know what is being done and this is one of the problems. I would speculate that large databases are being built profiling the citizenship and as tax payer I'm not convinced that this is the best use of my money or the best method for dealing with terrorism, crime etc. I would also imagine that information is used to help certain groupings vested interests and agendas.

In other words, you have not really been reading what has been written about what is going on. There a fair amount of good info out there.

I wouldn't say that. I follow the UK news (to some extent). It seems like the UK intelligence services have been storing general internet traffic and are saying that correct procedure is being followed to search within that stored data. The impression of many here is that our Foreign Secretary William Hague is not being truthful or is not properly in control (or aware) of how this stored information is being accessed/used/shared.

Mr Man wrote:

tiltbillings wrote:

Mr Man wrote: I don't think people actually know what is being done and this is one of the problems. I would speculate that large databases are being built profiling the citizenship and as tax payer I'm not convinced that this is the best use of my money or the best method for dealing with terrorism, crime etc. I would also imagine that information is used to help certain groupings vested interests and agendas.

In other words, you have not really been reading what has been written about what is going on. There a fair amount of good info out there.

I wouldn't say that. I follow the UK news (to some extent). It seems like the UK intelligence services have been storing general internet traffic and are saying that correct procedure is being followed to search within that stored data. The impression of many here is that our Foreign Secretary William Hague is not being truthful or is not properly in control (or aware) of how this stored information is being accessed/used/shared.

The impression. Fear mongering?

Vs burying your head in the sand!!!!

lyndon taylor wrote:Vs burying your head in the sand!!!!

Not that you have shown. Again, what is being done?

tiltbillings wrote:The impression. Fear mongering?

Why do you think it is fear mongering?