Monks in private jets pass test

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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby gavesako » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:21 pm

So here we go -- Luang Pu Nenkham and money laundering investigation, he will probably ask for exile in France next:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... laundering
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/nationa ... 09598.html

:broke: :spy:
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:03 pm

Naughty bhikkhus.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby plwk » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:14 am

Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby binocular » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:12 am

Ah. Monks are people too.
Besides, one bows to the robes representing the Dhamma, not the particular monk.
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby Mr Man » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:27 am

binocular wrote:Ah. Monks are people too.
Besides, one bows to the robes representing the Dhamma, not the particular monk.


So we should be critical when they do something inappropriate for their position?
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby binocular » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:43 am

Mr Man wrote:So we should be critical when they do something inappropriate for their position?

As with all complaints and criticism: one ought to complain to the person who is actually in the position to do something about it.
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby Mr Man » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:36 am

Should we be afraid of being critical? What do we do when self governing institutions misbehave or when those with the authority are complicit? Sometimes consensus is useful.
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby BlackBird » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:19 am

Mr Man wrote:Should we be afraid of being critical? What do we do when self governing institutions misbehave or when those with the authority are complicit? Sometimes consensus is useful.


Yes. Consensus is absolutely critical in this day and age.

binocular wrote:
Mr Man wrote:So we should be critical when they do something inappropriate for their position?

As with all complaints and criticism: one ought to complain to the person who is actually in the position to do something about it.

(emph. mine)

In the real world situations are not black and white binocular. You cannot apply one solution to fit all problems, it's not a 'one size fits all' world. There are situations that might arise where by you are not able to contact the person who has power to act in in necessary time. There are situations that arise where it is beneficial to spread the word far and wide, such as this current one in Thailand, a country where in order to save face - potential scandal is often swept under the rug without so much as a finger being lifted. What if you were the only one who knew about this and you only took it to the person you thought had the power to act, and he just made the whole thing dissappear, as is commonplace in many S.E. Asian countries.

Life seems to me to be one of those things where you have to take it as it comes. To say: 'I would act this way' or 'We should always do this' betrays an uninformed conception of the way these things work, predicated I would warrant upon a lot of strongly held views as opposed to any real world experience. This viewpoint is all too common in the world, sadly. Especially amongst those who harbour a self-exceptionalism that results in an 'I know best' mentality.
"And so, because this Teaching is so different from what Westerners are accustomed to, they will try to adapt the Teaching to their own framework. What they need to learn to do is not to adapt the Teaching to their own point of view but to adapt their own point of view to the Teaching. This is called saddhá, or faith, and it means giving oneself to the Teaching even if the Teaching is contrary to one’s own preconceived notions of the way things are."- Ven Bodhesako

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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby binocular » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:35 pm

Mr Man wrote:Should we be afraid of being critical? What do we do when self governing institutions misbehave or when those with the authority are complicit? Sometimes consensus is useful.

It's not clear what you want from me.


BlackBird wrote:(emph. mine)

In the real world situations are not black and white binocular. You cannot apply one solution to fit all problems, it's not a 'one size fits all' world. There are situations that might arise where by you are not able to contact the person who has power to act in in necessary time. There are situations that arise where it is beneficial to spread the word far and wide, such as this current one in Thailand, a country where in order to save face - potential scandal is often swept under the rug without so much as a finger being lifted. What if you were the only one who knew about this and you only took it to the person you thought had the power to act, and he just made the whole thing dissappear, as is commonplace in many S.E. Asian countries.

Life seems to me to be one of those things where you have to take it as it comes. To say: 'I would act this way' or 'We should always do this' betrays an uninformed conception of the way these things work, predicated I would warrant upon a lot of strongly held views as opposed to any real world experience. This viewpoint is all too common in the world, sadly. Especially amongst those who harbour a self-exceptionalism that results in an 'I know best' mentality.

By all means, public protests, passive aggressiveness, gossip and such work. To some extent.


Oh, and papañca rwles, as always.
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby Mr Man » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:51 pm

binocular wrote:
Mr Man wrote:Should we be afraid of being critical? What do we do when self governing institutions misbehave or when those with the authority are complicit? Sometimes consensus is useful.

It's not clear what you want from me.



???. I don't want anything from you.
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby BlackBird » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:29 am

binocular wrote:Oh, and papañca rwles, as always.


I think you missed the point there, or chose not to attribute it where it was intended to be attributed.
"And so, because this Teaching is so different from what Westerners are accustomed to, they will try to adapt the Teaching to their own framework. What they need to learn to do is not to adapt the Teaching to their own point of view but to adapt their own point of view to the Teaching. This is called saddhá, or faith, and it means giving oneself to the Teaching even if the Teaching is contrary to one’s own preconceived notions of the way things are."- Ven Bodhesako

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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby BlackBird » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:11 am



That's a bit difficult, I wonder when this monastery was established, as you see there is a Thai forest tradition monastery in New Zealand called Bodhinyanarama which was established in the 1980's to the best of my knowledge. It presents some obvious difficulties that both monasteries share the same name, and I'm curious to know which was established first.
"And so, because this Teaching is so different from what Westerners are accustomed to, they will try to adapt the Teaching to their own framework. What they need to learn to do is not to adapt the Teaching to their own point of view but to adapt their own point of view to the Teaching. This is called saddhá, or faith, and it means giving oneself to the Teaching even if the Teaching is contrary to one’s own preconceived notions of the way things are."- Ven Bodhesako

Nanavira Thera's teachings - An existential approach to the Dhamma | Ven. Bodhesako's essay on anicca
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby gavesako » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:17 am

This one in France was set up early on, almost at the same time as Chithurst in England. Ajahn Bankao, the abbot, is a Lao disciple of Ajahn Chah who was a refugee at that time and came to live in France in the late 1970s. Ajahn Chah went with Ajahn Sumedho to visit him there. But he kept his distance since then and did not join activities with the other Western monks. Strange that he welcomed this jet-setting monk in his monastery, technically a branch of Wat Pah Pong. That will certainly raise some questions now.
:thinking:
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby suriyopama » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:42 am

BlackBird wrote:That's a bit difficult, I wonder when this monastery was established, as you see there is a Thai forest tradition monastery in New Zealand called Bodhinyanarama which was established in the 1980's to the best of my knowledge. It presents some obvious difficulties that both monasteries share the same name, and I'm curious to know which was established first.


According to their website, it was established on 7 July 1977.

Some sources point it as an Ajahn Chah monastery
http://buddhism.hum.ku.ac.th/Buddhism/Ajahn_Chah/eng/monastery/
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Monastere_Bodhinyanarama
http://www.bouddhisme-france.org/adherents/annuaire/article/monastere-bodhinyanarama-monastere-des-moines-de-la-foret.html

I do not see it as an affiliated Wat Pah Nanachat or Wat Nong Pah Pong branch
http://www.watpahnanachat.org/Branches.htm
http://www.watnongpahpong.org/sakhananae.php

Many years ago when I went there, they explained to me that when Ajahn Chah traveled to Europe he was going to deliver a relic to Amaravati, but some event happened that made him leave the relic at the Bodhinyanarama Monastery in France.
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby gavesako » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:05 am

The monastery in France is not on the list of Wat Pah Nanachat and branches because we do not really recommend it to people. But it is definitely affiliated to Wat Pah Pong.

Ajahn Bankao was on some TV news defending LP Nenkham, so after this information has emerged he should better take a distance from him:

The monk went to Europe and has remained there since video clips and pictures showed him travelling on a private jet and helicopter, wearing expensive trendy accessories, going shopping in Paris, and sleeping with a woman.

Sukhum Wongprasit, one of his followers, on Wednesday urged the CSD to take action against those editing the clips on the monk and the woman. Mr Sukhum said the video was intentionally released to damage Nen Kham's reputation.

Phra Khru Wisutthiyan, chief of Si Sa Ket monks, has given Nen Kham until the end of this month to report to him, and to undergo an internal investigation that includes his disciplines. The monk chief said Luang Pu Nen Kham will be banned from the province if he ignores the order, and his case will be transferred to Ubon Ratchathani province.

Nen Kham has instructed his secretary to tell Phra Khru Wisutthiyan that he was on a "religious mission" in Europe and is unable to confirm the exact date of his return to Thailand.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... r-nen-kham
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Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby BlackBird » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:17 am

Sleeping with a women? Are we to assume this monk is no longer a monk?

It would seem according the news he's been laundering donations amounting to $6.4 million USD through a number of personal accounts.
"And so, because this Teaching is so different from what Westerners are accustomed to, they will try to adapt the Teaching to their own framework. What they need to learn to do is not to adapt the Teaching to their own point of view but to adapt their own point of view to the Teaching. This is called saddhá, or faith, and it means giving oneself to the Teaching even if the Teaching is contrary to one’s own preconceived notions of the way things are."- Ven Bodhesako

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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby suriyopama » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:23 am

Last edited by suriyopama on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby BlackBird » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:29 am

According to this site:
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 726_1.html

Later, a photo of the 34-year-old high-profile monk sleeping with a person who looked like a female was circulated on the Thai net sphere.

Local media Manager online reported that the monk has eight wives and two children.

Relationship with females are strictly prohibited for monks, and lavish lifestyle is considered a violation of the monks' precepts.


Of course now we are getting into the realm of the sensational, and I would like to play devils advocate in this situation by saying that the photo does not prove it was a women, it could very well be a man.
"And so, because this Teaching is so different from what Westerners are accustomed to, they will try to adapt the Teaching to their own framework. What they need to learn to do is not to adapt the Teaching to their own point of view but to adapt their own point of view to the Teaching. This is called saddhá, or faith, and it means giving oneself to the Teaching even if the Teaching is contrary to one’s own preconceived notions of the way things are."- Ven Bodhesako

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Re: Monks in private jets pass test

Postby gavesako » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:50 am

If some of you remember, more than 15 years ago there was a similar case involving the famous Ajahn Yantra. He faced similar charges and eventually fled to USA where he coninues to live and dress as a kind of Buddhist rishi.

:rolleye:
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