Listening practice

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Listening practice

Postby Dan74 » Mon May 28, 2012 2:35 pm

What to you folks think about the practice of listening?

I mean whenever one is listening to listen completely. I notice that after a long day, driving my daughter home from kindie, I half listen to her, all too often reaching for my phone to check the emails, etc. Listening to our friends and partners, how often do we think we already know what they are going to say and miss it, impatiently thinking ahead to our responses? Here on the forum too, I sometimes reply without reading properly, without attending properly to what is written.

Some say that complete listening has wonderous healing properties and was a big part of the renowned psychologist Carl Rogers' unconditional positive regard, the attitude he proposed for therapists. I guess complete listening is unselfish - one needs to let go of one's agenda and simply attend to what is being said. Or at least try.

I see it tying in very much with mindfulness, compassion and dana - giving of yourself completely.

Is listening something you see as part of your practice? Is it relevant to it? To your participation in the forum?
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Re: Listening practice

Postby Cittasanto » Mon May 28, 2012 3:00 pm

Dan74 wrote:What to you folks think about the practice of listening?

I mean whenever one is listening to listen completely. I notice that after a long day, driving my daughter home from kindie, I half listen to her, all too often reaching for my phone to check the emails, etc. Listening to our friends and partners, how often do we think we already know what they are going to say and miss it, impatiently thinking ahead to our responses? Here on the forum too, I sometimes reply without reading properly, without attending properly to what is written.

Some say that complete listening has wonderous healing properties and was a big part of the renowned psychologist Carl Rogers' unconditional positive regard, the attitude he proposed for therapists. I guess complete listening is unselfish - one needs to let go of one's agenda and simply attend to what is being said. Or at least try.

I see it tying in very much with mindfulness, compassion and dana - giving of yourself completely.

Is listening something you see as part of your practice? Is it relevant to it? To your participation in the forum?

I noticed a while ago this trend, and have tried to stop, but it is hard, especially when the person you are speaking to has already jumped in after only half listening and decided they know what you are saying :( it is a good breading ground for argument and dislike.

I do see it as part of practice, it is doing one thing at a time, and particularly useful in reading & understanding texts, as the process is the same even if the sensory organ in use is not.

we do need to allow both ourselves and others time to think what they are saying, when conversing so they say what they mean, although here it can be hard to know exactly what is meant due to varying language norms, and ability in english. I do find myself sometimes taking 30minuets or more to write a response here so I am being as clear as possible, cross checking what I am saying, and the like.

I see it as an aspect of right speech, particularly timely speech,
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Listening practice

Postby jason c » Mon May 28, 2012 3:21 pm

hi dan,
i,m going to interpret listening as mindfulness and not just hearing sensory.
when my daughter was 2, i took her to the zoo. i had this great plan to show her all the animals(i had an agenda). shortly after arriving on our way to see the monkeys my daughter started jumping down a flight of stairs, there was only 3 and they were wide so it was safe. i found myself thinking if she doesn't hurry up we'll be stuck here all day. i don't know why (probably because my daughter is a zen master) i just saw it, i wasn't listening to her. we spent the next 2 hrs. jumping on stairs and doing what she wanted, and it was fun!!
so listening is a huge part of my practice.
it is very relevant.
i'm trying to listen on the forum(there are so many different practices and its confusing).

not a perfect listener yet,
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Re: Listening practice

Postby hanzze_ » Mon May 28, 2012 3:26 pm

There are many paramis one can work on, patient is on of them.

Listening to Dhamma is one of the 10 wholesome deeds, here are some good explainings form "Abhidhamma in Daily life":

8. Dhammasavana (Listening To The Dhamma)

Dhammasavana means listening to the Dhamma of the Enlightened One. The fivse benefits of dhammasavana are (a) getting fresh knowledge; (b) understanding known facts more clearly; (c) resolving of skepticism and doubt (d) acquiring right belief and (e) enhancing your wisdom and faith.

False Method of Listening to Dhamma


Listening to the Dhamma with a view to getting the five benefits is true dhammasavana. Some attend Dhamma discourses because they are friendly with the preacher; some for the jokes and humorous anecdotes; some for the fear of accusation as being too lazy; some to access the ability of the preacher. One can get no benefit from listening to the Dhamma with such ignoble intentions. Once a China man was crossing a river in a rowboat when the boatman warned him that the boat leaked a bit. The China man thought that this meant the water from inside the boat leaked and oozed into the river. So there were no cause worry. In a while, he noticed the seat of his pants becoming wet. He was alarmed and exclaimed, "This boat does not leak; it only lets in water!" The true aim of listening to the Dhamma is to let our evil thoughts to ooze out. We should be very careful lest we let in more evil into our consciousness.

The Benefits of Reading

Today, there are many books which can give us wisdom and knowledge. In Myanmar, being a Buddhist country, hundreds of Buddhist treatises appear in bookstands. By reading these books you get the same benefit as listening to the Dhamma. Therefore reading such books is far more advantageous than listening to contemporary discourses. Even if you cannot read, you can ask someone to read aloud for you. This amounts to listening to the Dhamma.

Note:

I would recommend Jinattha Pakasani, Buddhavamsa, Five-hundred and Fifty Jatakas, Samvega Vatthu Dipani and other treatises written by famous learned monks as reading matter for your benefit.


9. Dhamma Desana (Preaching Dhamma)

Dhamma desana means preaching the Dhamma. If done with sincerity and magnanimity, preaching the Dhamma excels all other forms of Dana. The Buddha himself said, "Sabbha Danam dhammaDanam jinati - Preaching the Dhamma is the highest charity". To really achieve true dhamma desana kusala (good deed of preaching the Dhamma), the preacher must not expect gifts, offertories, fame of false pride. If so, the greed (lobha) for such material gain contaminates and diminishes the merits gained from preaching. Then the preacher will be like a foolish man who exchanged a hundred-thousand worth of sandalwood with a pitcher of stale molasses.

Maxim: As the foolish man traded a hundred-thousand worth of sandalwood with some stale molasses; the ignoble preacher teachers the priceless Dhamma in exchange for some petty material gain.

Qualification of a Preacher

A qualified preacher is no ordinary orator. He possess a clear and forceful voice; he must have ability to make others understand him clearly. So a preacher is hard to find. Although there are one thousand cows in a ranch, only one of them will bear forth a flawless bull-calf. Likewise thousands of mothers fail to give birth to a great preacher. A great preacher is indeed a rarity.

The Disadvantage Of Improper Intonation

Qualified teacher should be aware of their virtuous kamma of their past lives; when reciting the Noble Dhamma taught by the Buddha, the preacher must orate with a clear, manly voice. He must not willfully attempt to make his voice pleasant by means of improper accent, stress, intonation or elocution.

The Buddha himself pointed out the disadvantages of improper manipulation of speech sounds, making them sweet, to resemble singing while preaching the Dhamma. They are: (a) one become lustful of one's own voice; (b) the audience find lustful pleasure in the preacher's voice; (c) the preacher is blamed for singing like lay persons; (d) the preacher loses concentration while exerting oneself to produce sweet voice (e) the next generation of monks will emulate this indecent style.

Nowadays, these disadvantages can be experienced in many occasions. The younger monks are already following the wrong examples set by the indecent preachers. The pious are seldom present at discourses conducted by such bogus preachers. Those who attend the lectures only perfunctorily do not pay attention to the discourses. The educated class, through desirous of listening to the Dhamma, feel ashamed to be present at the lecture of such vulgar preachers.

It is imperative should have enough decency not to make melodies out of the priceless Dhamma. It is shameful mode of oration.

Simple Ways of Preaching

Dhamma preaching means not only the discourses given to a large audience in a lecture hall. Simple discussion on the Dhamma among two or three persons also is Dhamma desana, provided the preacher does not hope for any gifts or offertories. Giving admonition to devotees, young and old, teaching academic subjects, handicraft or technology of innocent nature, reading out the teachings of Buddha, all qualify as Dhamma desana. Bhikkhus today should train themselves to be good preachers; in addition they should study public speaking, proper reading and writing.


One additional practice is mindfulness on intentions and feelings, quite a good place, even a recommenced place if you are not so used to do it.

How ever, it's good to be on a forum where general aspects of right view are broadly respected (like kamma, rebirth...) which would help you to fall not astray till you gain the stream fruit. Also one is able to gain the needed intellectual understanding of the Dhamma.

How ever, there is also a time to move on, the dangers of philosophical enjoyments and discussions on unwholesome topics are also big.
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Re: Listening practice

Postby hanzze_ » Mon May 28, 2012 3:59 pm

On practicing and experiences:

Googlyana


Some times ago, I joined the real of devas and asuras (internet) not aware of doing so at this time. At the first time I was really shocked about how Dhamma was used and how careless recourses are used but I thought better to avoid it make it to a useful challenge. So I tried to understand the reasons for it and what could be done to make it a useful possibility, having in mind what all the use of energy causes.

For sure this kind of practice I like to introduce is not well developed and I am not a good explainer but maybe it gives somebody an inspiration as I think this kind of meditation can cover the whole Buddhist practice also while dwelling in this fine bodily realm. (some creativity is needed to understand it in condition with the traditional Buddha Dhamma, but it could be also used – if good developed as guideline – as a straight forward training)

Internet realm is a place where many very sensible beings decided to rest. It's a little aside of the whole spectrum of Dukkha but still contains everything for a beneficial practice. Many beings which appears in this realm have no good possibilities for practice and often seek it as a window for their normal recluse beside business as usual.

In this approach I also tried to do not miss a good amount of ironic and humor which is always useful especially at the beginning of practice. Like always, the inward looking using this aspects is important, so ironic and humor is well used by pointing just to one self. In this tread I like to draw a round possibility to use the given as good as possible form a dharmic and also modern view. "Continue wise wherever you are"

I also like to show my gratitude to all people which kept to be patience regarding my kind and never missed to trust nature as well as to all the teachers I met in this realm. Like everything in our world, it’s a matter of depending co-arising and never self made.


The origin of Googlyana

Googlyana is a compounded word. “Gooly” comes from the sport cricket and reflects beside the memorization on google (with is a very popular tool or vehicle for knowledge) also the subtile technique and its aim:

The explaining of gooly from wiki:

While a normal leg break spins from the leg to the off side, away from a right-handed batsman, a googly spins the other way, from off to leg, into a right-handed batsman (and is distinct from an off break delivery). The bowler achieves this change of spin by bending the wrist sharply from the normal leg break delivery position. When the ball rolls out of the hand (from the side near the little finger, as in a normal leg break), it emerges with clockwise spin (from the bowler's point of view). A googly may also be achieved by bowling the ball as a conventional leg break, but spinning the ball further with the fingers just before it is released.

Short: a going on bowled as if to break one way that actually breaks in the opposite way

The meaning in context with the Buddhist practice here can be seen as, using the normal way of modern times while putting a converse spin into all actions which would result a different effect even others are well undisturbed.
So the focus is on practicing the right spin till the time the practice will find the floor and as soon the floor is hit the practice on the future way will be in the right direction without having caused to much troubles before in swimming against the worldly stream.

The second part of the word is "yana" which means path or vehicle and represents the raft till reaching the eightfold path and the further raft of the true pure eightfold path to reach the other shore and end suffering.

The idea of to develop this vehicle a little was about 12 month ago and the name was inspired by a fellow forum user on Dhammawheel as the fourth great vehicle in the topic Knowledge is not realization!. After my first experiences online and the support of many teasing teacher (a deep bow and gratitude on this point) on Dhammawheel for some month and learning the modern ways of practical googeling and suttayana to restrain in discussions, I came one month later to a german board where I faced similar situations but a easier possibility to work softer (edged) and more efficient with words. There I tried to verbalize this vehicle (which is actually as long existing as there is communication via internet) and introduce it while practicing it intensively for some month by my self. Here on freesangha I remembered it again yesterday and thought to give it maybe possibility to grow or an inspiration form more talented people in teaching to use the idea it in their intention to make Dhamma better accessible online beside words although my verbal possibilities are very limited. *smile*

The mindfulness training in Googlyana was more that useful for my own benefit as well I would like to call it also from benefit for many others (form sure its just a personal impression). It also carries the possibility to be not to clinical which would scare newcomers to Buddha Dhamma and give also humor and socializing a base next to serious practice without the danger of much misunderstandings.

So all in all it’s a try to unite not only different traditions but gives also possibilities to walk either a clinical or an esoteric way. It brings living samples on the scream and compensates some missing qualities in the normal deva and asura realm (internet) as well as it is a try to transport the meaning of practice into the most used tool(mouth) of our time, the cyber world.
Also it can provide a basement for some additional explaining to moral and ethical conducts in our cyber time as today its very difficult to see the whole thing of cause and effect the mass of suffering and the first noble truth.

So just take it serious in not taking it to much serious!
Practice brings a other kind of joy. *smile*

And like always, if not useful: just throw it away and beware:

Image

Mindfulness practice and meditation in Googlyana

In practicing Googlyana, like in all other traditions, practicing is important. To be just a Buddhist or a Googlyanaist does not bring benefit for one self as well as it does not benefit others. Practicing makes masters.

Buddhist forums (Forhara) but also other forums can be used for this kind of mindfulness practice/mediation. At the same time this surrounding can be used to still the desire for knowledge and information as well as a base of exchange of it. The “skillful” speech is deeply connected with the Silas (compassion) as a practitioner strives for avoiding harm.

In the surrounding of a Buddhist Forhara the three pillows of practice are also evident and useable: Wisdom/Panna – Compassion/Sila – Mindfulness/Sati

I will start with the pillow of Sati

Technique of mindfulness in Forhara’s:

A short introduction and reasoning:

Emos and Smiles: As nice as they might be, as much Emos (Emotions better vedana) they will produce… The mad smiles *devil* *angry* are not so worse as nobody would use them easily honestly as they would be mostly an agreement with anger (who likes to show “negative” emotions) and would lead to smiles like *laugh* *smirk* and *roar* in an emotional surrounding. This would lead to degradation and furthermore to struggle *laugh* and to *ashamed* *red face* *tears* and *oh dear*
The signs “actually I am to lacy to write”, “sink or swim!” or “take a hard look” like *question* *look there* *here!* appear condescend. The “I am a worm” smile* might be sometimes useful to turn down one’s own ego but on one hand it produces pity and suffering for others and honestly, who likes to show such things in public.

So it makes for sure sense to reduce the use of smiles even thought that one or the other genius smile can have some humorous value which might uplift somebody or appears neutralizing.

For sure it’s the best to stay always clinical and read just words after words, but who is really able to stay on such a level, especial on the beginning of practice? And we also would miss a great opportunity interacting can provide. If it’s all about intellectual knowledge, forums are actually useless and would be better changed into good searching machines.

The main idea of this meditation technique therefore is to reflect on feelings and intention after writing a sentence. This practice is not only useful for one self but also useful for others and does not infect people who do not take it as their practice in the normal way.

Especial western (modern) people are used to orientate on physical signs of body and face to be able to understand others expressions better. Here we face the lack of it and normally the possibility to react a little wiser if somebody is caught by intensive delusion as a self protection as well as a help for others. And here a alternative Methode not only to express but also to reflect more on feelings, intentions and reactions.

Googlyana-Forhara-meditation, a fast method to mindfulness and realizations:

The user (beings) is able to begin right now without any knowledge of meditation. All he needs to do is: After having written a quote/words one needs to color the by one self located emotional enmeshed text parts.

At the beginning the grasping (greed) for information and exchange (after Panna-wisdom and Sila-Moral conducts) which is needed to come to visit a forum, is not so relevant and needs no rating yet (note: for sure one needs to prove if the motivation is right and its really about Buddha Dharma otherwise a practice would not very useful)

• Text passages regarding questions and answers on topic which are recognized as neutral (for sure it’s always a self investigation) and topic relevant will stay black. (Note: its always good to remember the original post if not clear visible)

1. Frist Traininglevel „Off-Topic - [b]On-Topic“[/b]

In this first step of training, one tries to investigate own text if it is relevant to the topic and in the stream of the discussion to it and text passages which are not on topic and simply color them blue.

At the beginning it might be that there are very less text passages which one realizes as offtopic and most of the text will stay black. With continuing practice and “reminder of others”, the mindfulness will increase and the determination will grow better. There is no need to abstain from the blue text passages but it is useful to just note/mark them. For others it would not contain a reason for quarrel as these text is marked and so not needed to be read if one does not wish to be involved in side talks.
This training will lead like a flow into the second training level as sooner or later the motivation and reason would be requested by others or by one self.

Note: Text in black does not contain any subjective discrimination, it could be that the text is very mindful or lacks of any mindfulness, so there is no danger if somebody keeps passages just black.

Technical:

Mark the text you like to color, for example [i]I am not sure
with your courser and select in the toolbar "Change Color" the color "blue"[/i]

or tip:
Code: Select all
[color=blue]I am not sure[/color]


The text selected text needs to have [ color=blue ] (without spaces) at the beginning and [ /color] at its end. It would appear like that: I am not sure as soon you post it. For undo it, you need to delete this codes manually.

2. The secound Training level „Emotions“ (or better feelings)

It’s actually a refinement of the first step. After looking for On-Topic and Off-Topic one needs to look for the reasons behind (in the black text as well as in the blue text) and colors the passages with Emo-colors or colors which sign the feelings (vedana) behind. To be able to do so, one needs to observe feelings and get some knowledge about them. There is no problem to color them in advance, knowing that a feeling is present but one should also reflect on this before finally posting the post. It’s important that one does only focus on his own text and do not mix his own text up which preceded post’s, even use them as a tool. This does not mean that one more time reading of a posting of others is not useful. Actually it would increases mindfulness. It’s important to remember that this mindfulness training has not the purpose to conquer others but to conquer one self. So watch as well as possible your own mind and do not speculate on others even use this meditation tool as a mad tool.

Step by step!

Choosing the right color: As all joy (worldly) and suffering contains greed (lobha) and harded (dosa) I choose to differ not in greed and hatred (bad or good) as they have the same nature but are only two sides of a coin, but in the intensity of this mind phenomena's.

Note: defuse feelings (uppeka vedana) as well as expressions of equanimity (uppeka) are contained in the color black and do not need a separation.

I gave them four levels of intensity and like to describe the fictive level and its opposite on the other side of the coin.

Hate (dosa)_______________Greed__________________Color

Angry____________________smitten__________________red (attributes of hate and greed very evident)
Cynically(high-spirited)_______arrogating (claiming)_______orange
Apolicatically_______________subliantly________________pink
Shyly_____________________sad____________________green(attributes of hate and greed very less evident)

So the color (attachment) spectrum starts with
black (unaware - defuse)
to
red (heavy attached)
orange (good attached)
pink (attached)
green (less attached)
back to
black again.

With these levels the grade of attachment could be graduated. It’s useful to do it in that way even at least there is no real graduation. Greed is greed and hatred is harted. At least there is attachment or no attachment, but for the first steps this kind of graduating would be to row.

If a group wishes to practice together in this way, it is useful to adopt the same color system. With this color schedule one is able to practice fast and effect as one can use statements of others later on and reflect on them (normally there is a long correspondence and a use of many posts till one gets some messages).
With this practice the pendulum of taking (accepting - loose) and giving (dish - win) grows slower or does not have big attitudes soon. A Forhara with many honestly practicing Googlyanis would grow soon to a colorful place and many meta – discussions would disappear with time even they are not offensively displaced. All Dharma’s have their room.
Even for visitors or those who use the Forhara (forum) as a place of socializing and meeting point of relations, the strange expressions through the colors would have its teaching and learning effects. For those who are straight seekers and who use to abstain from involvements of worldly character, it would be also easy to avoid them by “ignoring” the colored passages.

Googlyana is useful for everyone and does not discriminate different practitioner or people with different levels of insight!

To start right now it is useful to copy the text inside the code frame into your signature on this board as well as the date of your start (so that it is possible to see which posts have been made before this “mindfulness” training and which after)


Code: Select all
[url=http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12592&p=190619#p190619][b]Googlyana Mindfulness practicing[/b][/url]
[size=7pt][u]Hate (dosa)...............................................................Greed...........................................................Color[/u]
[color=red]Angry......................................................................smitten.............................................................red [/color]
[color=orange]Cynically(high-spirited)...........................................arrogating (claiming)....................................orange[/color]
[color=pink]Apolicatically...........................................................subliantly.........................................................pink[/color]
[color=green]Shyly.........................................................................sad.................................................................green[/color]
[color=blue]Off - Topic..................................................................=....................................................................blue[/color]
participating since  -------[/size]


which would appear like this:

Googlyana Mindfulness practicing
[size=7pt]Hate (dosa)...............................................................Greed...........................................................Color
Angry......................................................................smitten.............................................................red
Cynically(high-spirited)...........................................arrogating (claiming)....................................orange
Apolicatically...........................................................subliantly.........................................................pink
Shyly.........................................................................sad.................................................................green
Off - Topic..................................................................=....................................................................blue
participating since -------[/size]

or copy the light version:

Code: Select all
[url=http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12592&p=190619#p190619][b]Googlyana Mindfulness practicing[/b][/url]
participating since ----


which would look like this:

Googlyana Mindfulness practicing
participating since ----

To add the link to this explaining of the Googlyana – Mindfulness training as well as the color information’s would invites others to participate and can therefore be quoted as Dharma Dana.

The efficient practice follows automatically with interacting as well as with guidance of the moderators.
It should be avoided to discuss with other Users regarding the choice of a color (feeling) accept in very evident situations of misunderstanding. Practicing brakes are well done in the chart box. Don’t forget to leave the chat box without carry some attachments into the forum.
For social interacting as well as place to just express frustration the chat box is more useful as the board it self.

Isn’t that a mindfulness practice which would make sense?

…teasing and defending does not need to be avoided strictly but can be used to train more mindfulness and will make one self automatically more respectful while honestly reflecting. So we can use the Forhara not only for our search after panna –wisdom but also as a basis for mindfulness training and training in the Sila of “skillful” speech at the same time.

I wish you much joy and happiness while discovery the world of the “I” on the path of the virtual Googlyana. This system is on all boards with color function practicable like this sample.

May all User find access to Dharma!
May all User be free of suffering soon!
May all beings find happiness and peace for them self with ease!
Peace is possible link by link!

*smile*

I will try to provide the additional steps here and some more material to the Googlyana (practicing on internet) in other topics and will add the links.

3. The third training level „later dye“ (longtime investigation)

While the first and second step focus on the investigation before doing a verbal-physical act in by typing a new post, the third step invites to investigate historical posts and review their results.
This practice is recommended in times if there is no intention for new topics or posts (no questions or answers) but the time to practice online.
If we see older pictures of our self, we can realize the change of our body. If we look at our old posts and try to remember our intentions and emotions, we realize not only the change of our mind states but also our old failures as well as our progress in practice. We learn to understand cause and effects and will understand much more as before. So to read the own text one more time and try to color it is not just a waste of time but a very good opportunity to investigate longtime effects of our actions and the impermanence of feelings what ever they might have caused (wholesome or unwholesome effects)

Also regarding the third level, it’s important to focus on one’s own actions even the interactional situations are useful to understand. Just correct your self and color your own text.

So with this three steps adopted we can follow easy and in interaction with others the advice like Buddha had taught to his son Rahula (from Instructions to Rahula at Mango Stone:

[center]"What do you think, Rahula: What is a mirror for?"

"For reflection, sir."

"In the same way, Rahula, bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions are to be done with repeated reflection.
[/center]

"Whenever you want to do a verbal action, you should reflect on it: 'This verbal action I want to do — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Would it be an unskillful verbal action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful verbal action with painful consequences, painful results, then any verbal action of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do. But if on reflection you know that it would not cause affliction... it would be a skillful verbal action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then any verbal action of that sort is fit for you to do.

So before posting, one can prove (recalling his experiences of the past) if this would lead to harm. There is no need to abstain from writing such things at the beginning of the practice, but its good for the training to color them.

"While you are doing a verbal action, you should reflect on it: 'This verbal action I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful verbal action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it.

So while you are writing one post of the other you can carefully watch if a harm arises and stop or change the way you do.

"Having done a verbal action, you should reflect on it: 'This verbal action I have done — did it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Was it an unskillful verbal action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it led to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it was an unskillful verbal action with painful consequences, painful results, then you should confess it, reveal it, lay it open to the Teacher or to a knowledgeable companion in the holy life. Having confessed it... you should exercise restraint in the future. But if on reflection you know that it did not lead to affliction... it was a skillful verbal action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then you should stay mentally refreshed & joyful, training day & night in skillful mental qualities.

The third training step covers this advice.

The whole mindfulness training taking the coloring of text passages as the tool for practice would lead to the kind of improvement the Buddha advised for a happy existence where ever you are and to purify your mind for further trainings and insight meditation.

It also would cover big parts of the fourfold mindfulness the Buddha had advised in the Satipatthana Sutta but gives also possibilities for practicing experiences while following other meditation practices to understand the second noble truth better.

A discussion forum is a relative long lasting mirror, which allows easier longtime investigations as the foot prints do not disappear very fast.

This kind of practice is not one very useful for one self but also gives others the possibility to learn form your honest practice and can be quoted as a practice for one self and others which will never be criticized by the wise. So it covers also much Bodhisattva practice.

For oneself, for others

"Of two people who practice the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, having a sense of Dhamma, having a sense of meaning — one who practices for both his own benefit and that of others, and one who practices for his own benefit but not that of others — the one who practices for his own benefit but not that of others is to be criticized for that reason, the one who practices for both his own benefit and that of others is, for that reason, to be praised."

AN 7.64



The noble cyber-user - Sila in the Goolyana tradition

Buddha had given those who see the danger in worldly live a possibility (path) to stay as safe as possible in the circle on wandering on (samsara) as well as staying part of the worldly part of society. In the frame of this path (Dhamma Vinaya) one is able to engage with the hard wood of Dhamma while practicing mindfulness. The “rules” give support that one gets not in touch with harmful situations and secure the current existence for the own welfare as well as for the welfare of others. It’s the way of the middle path, between ascetic and crapulence and keeps both the tradition as well as the worldly way of life in contact and interaction for the continuously grow.

Beside the highest virtue of the Dhamma Vinaya there are the simple training precepts for laypeople.

The foundation of Silas (ethical training precepts) is compassion. Compassion means sharing but not dislike (hate) as well as not making something his own (greed) and is the protection which works for oe self as well as for all other beings at the same time.

All precepts do find their roots in the basic Buddhist intention:

"And what is right resolve? Being resolved on renunciation, on freedom from ill-will, on harmlessness: This is called right resolve."

— SN 45.8


Which has been formed to the basic precepts for layman:

1. Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.
2. Adinnadana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.
3. Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct.
4. Musavada veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.
5. Suramerayamajja pamadatthana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.


And the additional three precepts for intensive practice:

1. Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.
2. Adinnadana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.
3. Abrahmacariya veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity.
4. Musavada veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.
5. Suramerayamajja pamadatthana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.
6. Vikalabhojana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from eating at the forbidden time (i.e., after noon).
7. Nacca-gita-vadita-visukkadassana mala-gandha-vilepana-dharana-mandana-vibhusanathana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.
8. Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.


The seventh precept is split into two precepts and the additional precept of refraining of taking an using money among the ten ten precepts of a trainee to the highest virtue.

I will take the ten precepts as a foundation for ideas regarding Googlyana additions and explaining of this precepts:

I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.

For existences in the deva and asure realm of internet, this means to do not harm other uses or even cause them to lose their existence in their present appearance (avatar or user of a specific platt form). So one needs to be careful to act not in the intention to destroy cyber existence and shorten the live of somebody. Banner or force others to banner a person is regarded as destroying life and leads to suffering for one self and for others. A banned being does not disappear form the circle of wandering on and will sooner or later appear on another place in another form. Banner somebody causes later crisis of conscience as mildest form of ripping karma out of this case or banner in return.
It also means to avoid self destruction or destroying of his own avatar as also this leads to suffering. So if a avatar is not used any more, just let it be like it is. No need to destruct it (delete the own account).
Harming means also to cause not the delete of one's appearing like for example posts or even damaging web space or spread programs which are harmful to others like cyber virus and other harmful software.

I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.

The realm of internet is full of taking what is not given. Pirate copy, illegal downloads and so on. It should be no problem to keep this precept if one just looks at international and national worldly laws but it also goes deeper. So one should reflect if some takings even they are suggested are needed and feed a good practice and not only some additional join are grasping after cyber wealth.
This precept need to be reflected regarding data’s as well as in regard of software. In the case of the hardware, energy and so on a taking should be always in good balance with its benefit as long one needs to provide his needs in from of taking. Having all now, one would be able to abstain form additional taking what is not given freely from now on and maybe share things which are not needed to others to get the possibility to access the internet realm.

I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity.

Well, we know that most of the potential of internet is used to provide the pleasure of sexual activities and romance. It’s useful to reduce such intentions and abstain form using internet as a platform of such activities. We know enough samples where the first and second precept is immediately involved in such activities.

I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech

I guess this precept is the most trained precept in the internet realm and would be perfected while using googlyana’s mindfulness practice. A useful topic here on this forum might be How to approach disagreements - the Buddha's guidelines

I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.

In the first moment it seems to be irrelevant but thinking on online games and other mind defusing activities in the internet real it is worthy for some investigations.

I undertake the precept to refrain from eating at the forbidden time (i.e., after noon).

Huuch! *smile* A very big problem for longtime googlyanis. We actually eat which six mouthes and one of it is our mind it self, so it might be useful to give activities which seek for pleasure and food for the mind on internet strict times and abstain form ordinary surfing after a fix time or give it a always reduced timeframe.

I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments

I would say 90% of all potential of internet and the energy as well as the lives behind is “wasted” through the use as entertainment plat form. It might seem as a harmless possibility to get beloved pleasure but especially when it is not just given freely it causes much pain on other places in or world. In developing this precept one could start to abstain from searching after such entertainments, later maybe to abstain form joining even one is invited.

I undertake the precept to refrain from wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.

Its seems that there are less appears of beautifying the body, but as soon as we look at our digital appearance we might see beautiful pictures to identify our personality on web as well as links and also cyber wealth (websites and blogs) to make our self looking good. So reducing such intentions to make one self looking of more value can be seen in this precept as well also on internet.

I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place

This precept can be seen in regard of dwelling on high presents in broadly recognized high positions on web. It leads us to stay down on earth as well as not using lower positions to appear higher in level. So every dwelling on one place should be as down on earth as possible.
Also using the highest technology and hardware would be a matter of this precept.

I undertake the precept to refrain of using money and gold

If somebody provides his live with work on internet it’s not useful to adopt in the whole amount on cyberspace but one could abstain form business in all areas where Dhamma is involved. There is much Dharma business among many websites and activities which one could refrain of. On the other hand there is so much Dhamma Dana, that it is really not needed to force Dharma business but increases the quality of given and receiving to a level that ends in “without strings”


This are just some impulses and ideas about the big spectrum of Silas in the internet realm. The thematic of Vinaya adoption in addition is also an interesting issue and will maybe find some other discussions.

How ever a precept is individual understood is up to the person, so its good to reflect always on the original precepts which are simply and pointing always on the intention. It makes no sense to try to keep any precept if the meaning is not understood just to let it seem that one keeps it.
Over all precepts are training tools and not laws which would cause punishment by third, so step by step according to the personal awareness.

*smile*

May all user see the wholesome possibilities of their current existence!
May all user protect them well with compassion!
May nobody limit the existence of other users and may no user take his own existence harmfully in this realm!

Peace is possible
Link by link
*smile*

Practicing honor and respect for hungry ghosts in the internet realm. *smile*

Hungry ghost or Peta (pa + ita; lit., departed beings, or (those) absolutely devoid of happiness)

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Being reborn in the real of hungry ghosts might happen to the most former human beings having performed unwholesome karma in their lives.

Having a consciousness (realm) like a hungry ghost does not mean that one appears in the material form as we might thing. Its also possible to be a human with a consciousness like a hungry ghost.

"Some of your ancestors and deceased loved ones may have been reborn as hungry ghosts, no longer able to fend for themselves. In this poem the Buddha explains that it is to your long-term benefit — and to theirs — that you honor their memory with gifts."

If you think that there might be a hungry ghost, think of it. It could be your deceased beloved. *smile*

Hungry Shades Outside the Walls

Outside the walls they stand,
& at crossroads.
At door posts they stand,
returning to their old homes.
But when a meal
with plentiful food & drink is served,
no one remembers them:

Such is the kamma of living beings.
Thus those who feel sympathy
for their dead relatives
give timely donations
of proper food & drink
— exquisite, clean — [thinking:]
"May this be for our relatives.
May our relatives be happy!"

And those who have gathered there,
the assembled shades of the relatives,
with appreciation give their blessing
for the plentiful food & drink:
"May our relatives live long
because of whom we have gained [this gift].
We have been honored,
and the donors are not without reward!"

For there [in their realm] there's no farming,
no herding of cattle,
no commerce, no trading with money.
They live on what is given here,
hungry shades whose time here is done.
As water raining on a hill
flows down to the valley,
even so does what is given
here benefit the dead.

As rivers full of water fill the ocean full,
even so does what is given
here benefit the dead.
"He gave to me, she acted on my behalf,
they were my relatives,
companions, friends":

Offerings should be given for the dead
when one reflects thus on things done in the past.
For no weeping,
no sorrowing no other lamentation
benefits the dead
whose relatives persist in that way.

But when this offering is given,
well-placed in the Sangha,
it works for their long-term benefit
and they profit immediately.
In this way the proper duty to relatives
has been shown,
great honor has been done to the dead,
and monks have been given strength:
The merit you've acquired isn't small.


Some famous peta's form the pali kanon:

Ucchu

The name given to one of the stories of the Petavatthu. The peta referred to had been a resident near Veluvana. Once he was going along the road eating a sugar cane and carrying a bundle of sugar canes. Behind him came another man of good conduct, with a child. The child, seeing the sugar cane, begged for some of it with great lamentations. The good man wishing to console the child, walked up to the sugar cane-eater and tried to make friends. His efforts were, however, unsuccessful, and when he begged for a piece of sugar cane for the child, the man sulkily threw him a bit from the end of the sugar cane. This man, after his death, was born as a peta. Around him was a forest of sugar canes, but whenever he attempted to eat any of them he got badly bruised and wounded. One day Moggallāna saw him, and having discovered his antecedents told him about his past profitless life. He made the peta get for him a piece of sugar cane, which he offered to the Buddha and the monks. As a result of this, the peta was reborn in Tāvatimsa.


Kūtavinicchayaka-peta

One of Bimbisāra's judges, who was a cheat, a slanderer, and a taker of bribes, once observed the fast for half a day through a friend's persuasion. He died that night and was born as a Vemānika-peta. He enjoyed divine pleasures, but was condemned to eat the flesh off his own back in expiation of his evil deeds.

Nārada saw this peta and reported his story to the Buddha.


Sūkarapeta

1. Sūkarapeta. A peta who lived on Gijjhakūta. His body was human, but his head was that of a pig; out of his mouth grew a tail, and from the tail oozed maggots. Moggallāna saw him and reported the matter to the Buddha. The Buddha said that he, too, had seen the peta. In a previous birth he had been a preacher of the Law, but, wishing to obtain possession of a monastery which he visited, he brought about dissension between the two monks who had lived there on the friendliest terms. After death he suffered in Avīci for a whole Buddhantara, and was reborn in the peta world.


Being a hungry ghost means to be not able to move to another place. Different from a Deva for example, which is able to change its place of dwelling.

Peta's in Googlyana means User which are "bounded" to a Forhara (forum) and not able to take teachings they would like to still their desire (understanding the Dhamma).
Usually Peta's are not able to harm anybody, but constantly harm them self in seeking to still their desire. So generally there is no need to fear them. But remembering that a Peta could be deceased loved ones it would be good to give them a share. Some are able to receive offered gifts if they had done merits in their past.

The Peta Vatthu is the seventh book of the Khuddaka Nikāya and consists of stories of persons born in the peta world owing to various misdeeds. Download the Peta Vatthu (pdf)

In Buddhist influenced societies (but also in western cultures in the past) it is usually to have places to offer gifts to Petas. Also ever Vihara would have such places to give offerings. It might be useful to have such places also in a Forhara to share metta, honor and harmonic. Traditional if one would enter a Vihara, house or place he would make an offer to the hongry ghosts bounded on this place. Remember that hungry ghosts have a mouth like a needle and feed normally on sanies, blood and excrement, so do not offer them rough and hard food, as they would not be able to swallow. *smile*

If one like to see another User as a hungry ghost or such appearances like Trolls is up to the individual person. Remember to share metta and remember your deceased loved ones. Offerings might help them, promoting Dharma and study Dharma for one self as well in the future.

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Re: Listening practice

Postby retrofuturist » Mon May 28, 2012 10:45 pm

Greetings Dan,

Dan74 wrote:I see it tying in very much with mindfulness, compassion and dana - giving of yourself completely.

Is listening something you see as part of your practice? Is it relevant to it? To your participation in the forum?

Yes on all counts.

They call this the Information Age, and in response to it we've developed the skills to both search through copious amounts of information and to filter out what we deem to be non-essential.

However, it's been at the expense of meaningful communication because it assumes a degree of pre-knowledge of what's worth hearing and listening to, and the biggest risk is that ignores that fact that sometimes it's not so much the information, but the actual person behind the information, who we need to be listening to.

Being cognizant of this is the first step, and if we've trained ourselves to remain attentive to the mind or another object of meditation, we can find it's not too difficult to train ourserves to remain attentive to others either.

These are the things we learn...

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Listening practice

Postby SDC » Mon May 28, 2012 10:55 pm

Dan74 wrote:What to you folks think about the practice of listening?

I mean whenever one is listening to listen completely. I notice that after a long day, driving my daughter home from kindie, I half listen to her, all too often reaching for my phone to check the emails, etc. Listening to our friends and partners, how often do we think we already know what they are going to say and miss it, impatiently thinking ahead to our responses? Here on the forum too, I sometimes reply without reading properly, without attending properly to what is written.

Some say that complete listening has wonderous healing properties and was a big part of the renowned psychologist Carl Rogers' unconditional positive regard, the attitude he proposed for therapists. I guess complete listening is unselfish - one needs to let go of one's agenda and simply attend to what is being said. Or at least try.

I see it tying in very much with mindfulness, compassion and dana - giving of yourself completely.

Is listening something you see as part of your practice? Is it relevant to it? To your participation in the forum?


First off, put your phone down while you're driving. :tongue:

Yes, I do think it is part of our practice to give that time to people when they want to tell us something.
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Re: Listening practice

Postby Dan74 » Wed May 30, 2012 3:21 am

Thank you for sharing everyone.

Cittasanto, I find this is a good point:

and particularly useful in reading & understanding texts, as the process is the same even if the sensory organ in use is not.


Really settling into the reading, opening up to it and soaking it in, rather than "reading at a distance" so to speak.

Jason, great example with your daughter - I can definitely relate!

hanzzee, thanks for your lengthy reply. it's a bit much to be honest, and mostly off-topic, kind of makes the thread unwieldy and hard to read. but good material nevertheless. Googlyana! :lol:

SDC, I was only checking while waiting at a red light :embarassed: but yes, technology has got me hooked...
_/|\_
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Re: Listening practice

Postby Cittasanto » Wed May 30, 2012 10:20 pm

Dan74 wrote:Thank you for sharing everyone.

Cittasanto, I find this is a good point:

and particularly useful in reading & understanding texts, as the process is the same even if the sensory organ in use is not.


Really settling into the reading, opening up to it and soaking it in, rather than "reading at a distance" so to speak.

glad you found something of use there!
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Re: Listening practice

Postby Doshin » Thu May 31, 2012 12:37 pm

jason c wrote:hi dan,
i,m going to interpret listening as mindfulness and not just hearing sensory.
when my daughter was 2, i took her to the zoo. i had this great plan to show her all the animals(i had an agenda). shortly after arriving on our way to see the monkeys my daughter started jumping down a flight of stairs, there was only 3 and they were wide so it was safe. i found myself thinking if she doesn't hurry up we'll be stuck here all day. i don't know why (probably because my daughter is a zen master) i just saw it, i wasn't listening to her. we spent the next 2 hrs. jumping on stairs and doing what she wanted, and it was fun!!


Thanks for sharing. Your story touched my heart !
Knowing about dhamma, does not imply knowing dhamma
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