Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:16 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:As a woman, within genuine reach of the World Championship on the 'open' / men's list, she is largely unsung and unrecognized outside of the chess world for this significance. In virtually no other sport can women compete with the top men due to the average larger muscle mass in men. But since chess is primarily a mental / intellectual game, Polgar demonstrates that women can reach the highest levels. This could suggest that there is little to no differences in intellectual abilities between men and women, but again, unfortunately this goes largely unnoticed outside of the chess world.


Chess is mainly a men's game because, as I learned it, the men's brain is different from the women's brain. The right frontal lobe, in men, is used for visualization process. It's a specific area for that, while women have to use the whole left brain to visualize images. The right frontal lobe, in women, is designed for language usage. This difference in visualizing things in space is well studied in IQ tests.

Polgar (you're probably aware of this) was part of an experience by her father who wanted to test if intelegence is just genetic, or can be learned. So he trained hard his three daughters to play chess from early age, even blindfolded. The result is impressive. He created three geniuses.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
 
Posts: 1948
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Funchal, Portugal

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Lazy_eye » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:56 pm

David,

I'm really enjoying this thread. Waiting to see if Alekhine made the list!
User avatar
Lazy_eye
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Laurel, MD

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:32 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:Chess is mainly a men's game because, as I learned it, the men's brain is different from the women's brain. The right frontal lobe, in men, is used for visualization process. It's a specific area for that, while women have to use the whole left brain to visualize images. The right frontal lobe, in women, is designed for language usage. This difference in visualizing things in space is well studied in IQ tests.


I have heard about the visualization process. It could explain why some men seem to be able to find their cars in a parking lot better than women. Or maybe they are just more attached to their cars? :thinking:

But I think the visualization process is not as important as the combination strategies and analysis (perhaps, engineering and mathematical skills) and the artistic and creative skills that are also needed. And that is why women could do as good as men and perhaps Polgar demonstrates this or gives some evidence to that.

Polgar (you're probably aware of this) was part of an experience by her father who wanted to test if intelligence is just genetic, or can be learned. So he trained hard his three daughters to play chess from early age, even blindfolded. The result is impressive. He created three geniuses.


Yes, that was an incredible experiment. I hope the girls (now women) didn't mind being the subjects of that experiment. :thinking: It appears that geniuses can be made based on this experiment? Or maybe the father is selling himself short and has high intelligence himself? Judit Polgar has done very well, so I imagine she is okay with the chess upbringing.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:42 am

Lazy_eye wrote:David,
I'm really enjoying this thread. Waiting to see if Alekhine made the list!


Thanks. We'll see . . . only two spots left on my list of the all-time greatest.

By the way, Happy Birthday! My online time has been a little less than what I prefer lately, so missed that other thread.

Is Alekhine your pick for the best and/or your favorite chess player?
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:14 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
Modus.Ponens wrote:Polgar (you're probably aware of this) was part of an experience by her father who wanted to test if intelligence is just genetic, or can be learned. So he trained hard his three daughters to play chess from early age, even blindfolded. The result is impressive. He created three geniuses.


Yes, that was an incredible experiment. I hope the girls (now women) didn't mind being the subjects of that experiment. :thinking: It appears that geniuses can be made based on this experiment? Or maybe the father is selling himself short and has high intelligence himself? Judit Polgar has done very well, so I imagine she is okay with the chess upbringing.

The Williams sisters' tennis careers are the result of their father's ... let's say, ambition for them, and another data point on the nature/nurture scoreboard.
:juggling:
Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 2999
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Lazy_eye » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:17 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
Thanks. We'll see . . . only two spots left on my list of the all-time greatest.

By the way, Happy Birthday! My online time has been a little less than what I prefer lately, so missed that other thread.

Is Alekhine your pick for the best and/or your favorite chess player?


My level of chess knowledge doesn't qualify me to make such a pick, but he's an interesting, controverisal figure and opinion seems quite divided about his overall legacy, so I'm curious to see how he fares in the Dhamma Wheel rankings. :reading:

Thanks for the birthday wishes!
User avatar
Lazy_eye
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Laurel, MD

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Sanjog » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:36 pm

Polgár was a GM at a tender age as well. Fifteen years and four months, impressive.

Will Deep blue feature in this list? :tongue:

Also, who is the Chess player with incredible memory who faced a premature death following a disease in St Petersburg?
User avatar
Sanjog
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:52 am

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:01 am

Sanjog wrote:Polgár was a GM at a tender age as well. Fifteen years and four months, impressive.


:thumbsup:

Will Deep blue feature in this list? :tongue:


I thought about including Deep Blue, but then felt that with the way computers are getting so advanced eventually all ten spots might be different programs, which wouldn't be too fun or interesting. So then I thought about just putting the generic "Chess Computers" at one of the spots in the Top 10, but then felt that would not be too good either. To be fair, that would be sort of like listing the 'crane' as the best weight lifter of all time. So I decided to leave the machines out of the list and only put the humans. :tongue:

Also, who is the Chess player with incredible memory who faced a premature death following a disease in St Petersburg?


Is that a chess quiz? :tongue:

George Koltanowski is perhaps the greatest blindfold player of all-time, but he lived to the age of 96.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Koltanowski
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:59 am

2. Emanuel Lasker (1868-1941) from Germany

Undisputed World Champion for 27 years 1894-1921

Image

Dr. Emanuel Lasker is the longest reigning World Champion in modern times and when there were clear championship matches performed. He was born on December 24, 1868 at Berlinchen in Neumark (now Barlinek in Poland), the son of a Jewish cantor. At the age of eleven he was sent to Berlin to study mathematics, where he lived with his brother Berthold, eight years his senior, who taught him how to play chess. He earned a doctorate (Ph.D.) in mathematics in 1902.

After winning the world championship, he successfully defended his title 5 times, two of the times winning the match without a single loss. However, there were two 9 year periods during his reign where he did not have to defend his title, out of the total 27 years as champion.

Emanuel Lasker, playing black, defeating Wilhelm Steinitz

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. f4 d5 4. d3 Nc6 5. fxe5 Nxe5 6. d4 Ng6
7. exd5 Nxd5 8. Nxd5 Qxd5 9. Nf3 Bg4 10. Be2 O-O-O 11. c3 Bd6
12. O-O Rhe8 13. h3 Bd7 14. Ng5 Nh4 15. Nf3 Nxg2 16. Kxg2
Bxh3+ 17. Kf2 f6 18. Rg1 g5 19. Bxg5 fxg5 20. Rxg5 Qe6 21. Qd3
Bf4 22. Rh1 Bxg5 23. Nxg5 Qf6+ 24. Bf3 Bf5 25. Nxh7 Qg6
26. Qb5 c6 27. Qa5 Re7 28. Rh5 Bg4 29. Rg5 Qc2+ 30. Kg3 Bxf3
0-1
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Sanjog » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:58 pm

Also, who is the Chess player with incredible memory who faced a premature death following a disease in St Petersburg?

Is that a chess quiz? :tongue:

George Koltanowski is perhaps the greatest blindfold player of all-time, but he lived to the age of 96.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Koltanowski


No, he is an Englishman, he beat the English chess champion when he was in his early teenage years.

This list gets interesting now, I guess Mikhail Tal is at the top or is it José Capablanca. Hard to guess really with so many players to choose from!
User avatar
Sanjog
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:52 am

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Mothra » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:56 am

Alekhine and Capa both belong in top 10. Too many great players left out.
Mothra
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:01 am

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:04 pm

AND THE WINNER IS . . . . . . .

(Coming soon . . . . )

In the meantime, see: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5392
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:59 pm

NUMERO UNO coming next!

(Okay, that's probably too big of a hint, so in the next minute I'll post my pick for number one)
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:02 pm

NUMERO UNO

1. José Raúl Capablanca (1888-1942) from Cuba

World Champion for 6 years 1921-1927

Image

José Raúl Capablanca, the second surviving son of a Spanish army officer, was born in Havana, Cuba on November 19, 1888. According to Capablanca, he learned the rules of the game at the age of four by watching his father play, pointed out an illegal move by his father, and then beat his father twice. At the age of 13 he beat the Cuban national champion.

In 1905 Capablanca passed with ease the entrance examinations for Columbia University in New York City, where he wished to play for Columbia's strong baseball team, and soon was selected as shortstop on the freshman team. In the same year he joined the Manhattan Chess Club, and was soon recognized as the club's strongest player. He was particularly dominant in rapid chess, winning a tournament ahead of the reigning World Chess Champion, Emanuel Lasker, in 1906. In 1908 he left the university to concentrate on chess.

Capablanca played in numerous simultaneous exhibitions, sometimes playing hundreds of opponents at a time and usually winning 95 percent or more of the games. In one exhibition in the U.S., he played 103 simultaneous games over six hours, winning 102, drawing one, losing ZERO (99.5%). Even when he played against other Grandmasters of chess, he usually won by wide margins.

Unlike other chess champions and Grandmasters, Capablanca rarely studied his opponents’ previous games and strategies and instead relied on his natural chess talent. He is listed as the greatest natural genius at chess by the authors of the famous book, The Complete Chess Addict. Capablanca is at the number one spot on my all-time list of Greatest chess players for the above reasons, plus:

* He was a chess prodigy, defeating his national champion at the age of 13
* In 1918 he played in a tournament in New York where the average rating of his opponents was 2682. Capablanca won with 6 wins, zero losses, and zero draws.
* When he won the 1921 World Championship match against Dr. Lasker, he did so by beating him with four wins, ten draws, and ZERO losses
* From 1916 to 1924 he was undefeated, playing 64 games against Grandmasters and winning 40 and drawing 24 (+40-0=24)
* Even Alekhine, who defeated Capablanca in 1927 to take over the World Champion title, still had a lifetime minus (more losses than wins) to Capablanca (+7-9=33)
* A computer analysis study of the past world champions’ moves and games, showed that Capablanca had the greatest strength of all the past world champions (IGCA Journal, June 2006)
* Capablanca successfully predicted that chess would become inundated with draws and he is the first known world champion to propose a chess variant

Capablanca was concerned that the accelerating development of chess technique and opening knowledge might cause such stagnation in 50 years' time. Hence he suggested the adoption of a 10x8 board with 2 extra pieces per side (a chancellor that moves as both a rook and knight and an archbishop that can move as a bishop and knight). He thought this would prevent technical knowledge from becoming such a dominant factor, at least for a few centuries and he is correct, that since there is still the same starting position, opening theories would eventually develop even with this variant. Unlike some other later world champions who have proposed some variants after losing the World Champion title, Capablanca proposed his chess variant while he was still world champion.

1921 World Championship match, game 10

Dr. Emanuel Lasker, World Champion, playing white
Jose Raul Capablanca, playing black

1.d4 {Notes by J. R. Capablanca} d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5
Be7 5.e3 O-O 6.Nf3 Nbd7 7.Qc2 c5 8.Rd1 Qa5 9.Bd3 h6 10.Bh4
cxd4 11.exd4 dxc4 12.Bxc4 Nb6 13.Bb3 Bd7 14.O-O {The
development is now complete. White has a lone d Pawn, but, on
the otherhand, Black is somewhat hampered in the maneuvering
of his pieces.} Rac8 15.Ne5 Bb5 {With this move and the
following, Black brings about an exchange of pieces, which
leaves him with a free game.} 16.Rfe1 Nbd5 17.Bxd5 Nxd5
18.Bxe7 Nxe7 19.Qb3 Bc6 {Not Ba6 because of Nd7, followed by
Nc5.} 20.Nxc6 bxc6 21.Re5 Qb6 22.Qc2 Rfd8 23.Ne2 {Probably
White's first mistake. He wants to take a good defensive
position, but he should instead have counter-attacked with Na4
and Rc5.} Rd5 24.Rxd5 cxd5 {Black has now the open file and
his left side Pawn position is very solid, while White has a
weak d-Pawn. The apparently weak Black a Pawn is not actually
weak because White has no way to attack it.} 25.Qd2 Nf5 26.b3
{In order to free the Queen from the defense of the b-Pawn and
also to prevent Rc4 at any stage.} h5 { In order to prevent g4
at a later stage. Also to make a demonstration on the king’s
side, prepatory to further operations on the other side.}
27.h3 {Weak, but White wants to be ready to play g4.} h4 {To
tie up White's King side. Later on it will be seen that White
is compelled to play g4 and thus further weaken his game.}
28.Qd3 Rc6 29.Kf1 g6 30.Qb1 Qb4 31.Kg1 {This was White's
sealed move. It was not the best move, but it is doubtful if
White has any good system of defense.} a5 32.Qb2 a4 {Now Black
exchanges the pawn and leaves White with a weak, isolated
b-Pawn, which will fall sooner or later.} 33.Qd2 Qxd2 34.Rxd2
axb3 35.axb3 Rb6 {In order to force Rd3 and thus prevent the
White rook from supporting his b-Pawn by Rb2 later on. It
means practically tying up the White rook to the defense of
his two weak pawns. } 36.Rd3 Ra6 37.g4 hxg3 38.fxg3 Ra2 39.Nc3
Rc2 40.Nd1 {The alternative Na4, was not any better. White’s
game is doomed. } Ne7 41.Nc3 Rc1+ 42.Kf2 Nc6 43.Nd1 Rb1 {Not
Nb4 because of 44. Rd2 Rb1 45. Nb2 Rxb2 46.Rxb2 Nd3+ 47.Ke2
Nxb2 48.Kd2, and Black could not win. } 44.Ke2 {Not a mistake,
but played deliberately. White had no way to protect his
b-Pawn.} Rxb3 45.Ke3 Rb4 46.Nc3 Ne7 47.Ne2 Nf5+ 48.Kf2 g5
49.g4 Nd6 50.Ng1 Ne4+ 51.Kf1 Rb1+ 52.Kg2 Rb2+ 53.Kf1 Rf2+
54.Ke1 Ra2 {All these moves have a meaning. The student should
carefully study them.} 55.Kf1 Kg7 56.Re3 Kg6 57.Rd3 f6 58.Re3
Kf7 59.Rd3 Ke7 60.Re3 Kd6 61.Rd3 Rf2+ 62.Ke1 Rg2 63.Kf1 Ra2
64.Re3 e5 {This was my sealed move and unquestionably the best
way to win.} 65.Rd3 {If 65.Ne2 Nd2+ 66.Kf2 e4 67.Rc3 Nf3
68.Ke3 Ne1 69.Kf2 Ng2. and White would be helpless. If 65.Nf3
Nd2+ exchanging knights wins.} exd4 66.Rxd4 Kc5 67.Rd1 d4
68.Rc1+ Kd5 {There is nothing left. The Black pawn will
advance and White will have to give up his Knight for it. This
is the finest win of the match and probably took away from
Dr. Lasker his last real hope of winning or drawing the
match.} 0-1

Capablanca wins a strategic masterpiece

“No other master has sustained so few losses over such a long period of time. When asked how many moves he looked ahead his reply was ‘One move, the best move’, and this probably holds more than a grain of truth. Capablanca was renowned for his ability to instantly and accurately evaluate chess positions. Perhaps, of all the chess players through history only he had such an accurate evaluation function. Capablanca liked to control the position and to focus only on elements he felt were necessary to achieve victory. His endgame technique was legendary. It is often said that you can discover the true strength of a player by looking at how he handles endgames. If this is the case then Capablanca was the strongest player of all time.” (from the Chyss website, where Capablanca is also listed as the Greatest chess player of all-time)

As a player who defied tradition (advocated for chess variants) , who was well-rounded and participated in other sports (baseball), and focused on the present with the emphasis on one move at a time; Capablanca may be the chess champion who is the most Dhamma-like. Victor Korchnoi, who was never World Champion, but came very close several times, is perhaps the most Dhamma-like Grandmaster since he practiced yoga and meditation and used it to almost make an incredible come from behind victory against Anatoly Karpov in the World Championship match of 1978.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:09 am

Very interesting topic. Thanks David.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
 
Posts: 1948
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Funchal, Portugal

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:23 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:Very interesting topic. Thanks David.


:thanks:

I have enjoyed making the thread and list. Although I had a pretty good idea from the onset about the order, especially the top 5, I enjoyed researching all of the facts and stats to back up my case for each rank position.

Since this thread will eventually go down as new topics are added to the 'lounge' I made a Dhamma Wiki article about this Top 10 list and referenced/quoted this discussion thread:

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?tit ... f_all_time

And the article at Dhamma Wiki can also be accessed by browsing the categores 'Arts' or 'Sports' at the Main Page.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Sanjog » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:45 am

Since Capa is no one here is a story about him:



During the 1920s when Capa reigned supreme there were always people wanting to test themselves against the world champion. Had he taken on all comers, he would have had little time to himself. So, when one day a stranger challenged him to play,
he immediately refused. The visitor then said, “I understand your time is valuable
and I would not waste it; but if you play me a game of chess—and win—I will donate $10,000 to any charity you name.” It was an enormous amount of money in those pre-inflationary days and Capa felt he could not refuse.

As they sat down to play the man said, “The commitment so far has been all mine.
Let us agree that, should I win, I may take for myself any one possession of yours.”
That this challenger might win was unthinkable, so Capa readily agreed.

As the game went on, Capa found his position slowly worsening as the stranger played with unearthly accuracy. Little by little he built up a significant positional advantage and Capa's game was on the verge of collapse when he realized who he was playing. This was none other than the Devil, and the thing they were playing for was Capablanca's soul.

His hand shook with emotion as he played his next move but his voice remained firm.
“Who are you?” he demanded,
“You know who I am. You know what I want.”
“Prove it!” said Capablanca. “If you're really the Devil, with a touch of your finger turn your king into a golden piece with a jewelled crown.”

Smugly the Devil did as he was bidden and Capablanca smiled.
“You touched the king,” he said. “Now move it!”
Chagrined the Devil did as he was bidden, and soon fell to a clever
Capablanca combination before vanishing in a flash of black light.
It was the first time he had lost a game of chess since that wily bishop, Ruy Lopez (Rodrigo López de Segura), had trounced him almost four centuries earlier.
User avatar
Sanjog
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:52 am

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:48 am

:smile: :soap:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
 
Posts: 1948
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Funchal, Portugal

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:01 am

Sanjog wrote:“Prove it!” said Capablanca. “If you're really the Devil, with a touch of your finger turn your king into a golden piece with a jewelled crown.”

Smugly the Devil did as he was bidden and Capablanca smiled.
“You touched the king,” he said. “Now move it!”


:clap:

Great story! That Capa is just too clever and smart, a total genius. I am sure he could outsmart the devil or Mara.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Top 10 Chess players of all-time

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:41 pm

I may have to update my list here some time soon. Magnus Carlsen has now attained to the highest elo rating in history. He is only 22 years old, from Norway. Hopefully he will be playing against Anand later this year for the World Championship.

Wikipedia wrote:Carlsen won the London Chess Classic in December with five wins (over McShane, Aronian, Gawain Jones, Adams and Judit Polgár) and three draws (against Kramnik, Nakamura and Anand).[96] This win, the third time Carlsen had won the tournament in the past four years, increased his rating from 2848 to a new record of 2861, breaking Kasparov's 13-year record of 2851.[96][97] By rating performance, this was one of the best results in history, with a performance rating of 2994.[98] This was Carlsen's thirteenth classical tournament in a row with an Elo performance of 2815 or better (the previous twelve being Nanjing 2010, London 2010, Wijk aan Zee 2011, Bazna 2011, Biel 2011, São Paulo/Bilbao 2011, Tal Memorial 2011, London 2011, Wijk aan Zee 2012, Tal Memorial 2012, Biel 2012 and São Paulo/Bilbao 2012).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Carlsen
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

PreviousNext

Return to Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alan and 8 guests