being nicer on here

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manas
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by manas »

tiltbillings wrote:
manas wrote:
maybe
but/i/still/dont/see/why/they/should/be/made/to/endure/that
If you have a complaint about how some one is being treated here, use the "report" function and/or leave a PM with a mod or admin. Both these actions get quick and appropriate responses. Your characterization here of this forum is not quite accurate, but simply become the change you want to see, which could start in this very thread.
i/realised/that/i/might/have/given/that/impression
and/actually/just/edited/it/for/clarification
i/was/not/characterising/the/entire/forum
my/apologies/if/it/came/across/like/that
the/trouble/is
im/interested/in/this/topic
but/am/finding/typing/difficult
anyway/this/topic/is/very/specific
it/deals/with/where/we/could/improve
what/is/already/a/fantastic/site
from/which/i/have/learned/much

i/think/in/retrospect
trying/to/post/with/a/malfunctioning/keyboard
was/a/mistake
because/im/being/misunderstood
its/hard/to/write/like/this

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
binocular
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by binocular »

manas wrote:sometimes
but/then/again/we/are/dealing/with/uninstructed/people
of/course/they/will/have/pride
and/knowing/nothing/as/yet/of/dhamma/they/cant/be/expected
to/have/any/faith/as/yet
I'm not disputing what you're saying.
But here's the crux:

How wholesome is it that someone who themselves is not fully convinced of the Buddha's teachings nor is thoroughly educated and attained in them (which refers to many people who consider themselves "Buddhists" or "aspiring Buddhists"),
encourages others to be convinced of the Buddha's teachings and to practice accordingly?

And secondly, there is the danger of unilaterally setting oneself up as another's teacher, and even as the one and only means that another person may have to reach enlightenment. How wholesome is that?

I'm not against niceness; I do think though that there is a real danger of developing a kind of codependent or otherwise unhealthy relationship with others, be they newcomers or oldheads.

I don't think it is wholesome to consider oneself responsible for another person's faith in Buddhism, at least not as long as one isn't significantly advanced yet.

binocular wrote:I think that people who are really interested will stick around, even if this means enduring some harsh treatment.
maybe
but/i/still/dont/see/why/they/should/be/made/to/endure/that
Nobody suggested that they should be made to endure harsh treatment.

It's just that if one sets out on a path of effort - whether it is worldly effort or spiritual effort - one is likely to encounter obstacles and setbacks. It probably won't be plain sailing. In that sense, one ought to get ready for some trouble.
That's just how life is, for most people.

Again, I'm not condoning or justifying harsh treatment. It's just that one can operate out of only that much faith and attainment as one actually has, not out of as much as one wishes one would have, or out of as much as one deludes oneself into believing one has. One needs to be realistic about these things, in regards to oneself and in regards to others, whether one is a newbie or an oldhead.
Last edited by binocular on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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BlackBird
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by BlackBird »

It's not actually that hard to not be an asshole, especially if you meditate as many here claim to do.

If there's one place on the internet that should eschew harsh speech, it should be a Buddhist forum. The sentiment expressed here by many seems to be something along the lines of: "Toughen up, it's the way of the world." - Sure, we should be used to putting up with this from those who do not practice the Dhamma, but those who practice Dhamma should strive to be nice people, not to be caustic or snappy to those who ask questions they've heard a millions times, or to those who express a view point that one disagrees with. There's nothing more detrimental to the overall health and longevity of a discussion forum than an unwelcoming atmosphere, caused by a bunch of people that see it as their duty to shoot down and destroy any view that doesn't accord with their own. I've seen it happen to more than one place, and I'd hate to see it happen here. We should endeavour to cultivate harmony here on the board. It's one thing to wish for someone's happiness, it's another thing altogether to take action to try and make it so.

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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binocular
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by binocular »

manas wrote:i/think/in/retrospect
trying/to/post/with/a/malfunctioning/keyboard
was/a/mistake
because/im/being/misunderstood
its/hard/to/write/like/this
You might be able to copy-paste a space.
On a PC, you can move with the cursors to an space in the post you're replying to, mark it with the mouse or Shift+cursor key, click Ctrl+c, and then click Ctrl+v wherever you need a space.
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by Spiny Norman »

BlackBird wrote:It's not actually that hard to not be an asshole, especially if you meditate as many here claim to do.

If there's one place on the internet that should eschew harsh speech, it should be a Buddhist forum. The sentiment expressed here by many seems to be something along the lines of: "Toughen up, it's the way of the world." - Sure, we should be used to putting up with this from those who do not practice the Dhamma, but those who practice Dhamma should strive to be nice people, not to be caustic or snappy to those who ask questions they've heard a millions times, or to those who express a view point that one disagrees with. There's nothing more detrimental to the overall health and longevity of a discussion forum than an unwelcoming atmosphere, caused by a bunch of people that see it as their duty to shoot down and destroy any view that doesn't accord with their own. I've seen it happen to more than one place, and I'd hate to see it happen here. We should endeavour to cultivate harmony here on the board. It's one thing to wish for someone's happiness, it's another thing altogether to take action to try and make it so.

metta
Jack
:goodpost:
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kirk5a
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by kirk5a »

I think it's more fun to figure out how to skillfully respond to rudeness than it is to tell others to stop being rude. Or, to figure out how to not be rude myself. Or, figure out how to respond when someone perceives what I said as rude, when I didn't mean to be rude. Anyway, the only gains I can see happening are by "being the change you wish to see."

But really, I don't see that much of a problem on DhammaWheel that needs all that much fixing really. I guess others have a different perception of the atmosphere here. The moderators do a great job of taking care of the stuff that crosses the line, and the rest I chalk up to the imperfections of human behavior. Which leaves the bulk of it, which I think is just fine - welcoming, accepting of different viewpoints and levels of familiarity with the Dhamma and so forth.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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yawares
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by yawares »

manas wrote:hi/all/bear/with/me/i/need/a/new/keyboard/space/bar/broken...

i/recall/recently/reading/or/hearing/something/about/this:

some/respond/best/to/gentleness
some/respond/best/to/firmness
some/respond/best/to/a/mixture/of/gentleness/and/firmness

i/dont/believe/the/buddha/was/hard/on/every/single/student
neither/should/we/expect/that/everyone/ought/to/have/a/thick/enough/skin/to/
deal/with/harsh/words/right/from/the/start

we/ought/to/be/sensitive/to/the/differing/natures/of/different/individuals/
and/train/them/accordingly/imho
if/we/treat/everyone/the/same/way/there/is/a/risk/we/will/lose/thinner/skinned/individuals
who/if/we/had/exercised/more/care/with/initially/(comma)/might/have/persevered
and/not/gone/away/due/to/hurt/feelings

those/thinner/skinned/newbies/(comma)/as/they/grow/in/the/dhamma/(comma)
will/eventually/become/tougher/also
but/initially/some/gentleness/is/appropriate/with/them/imho

metta
------------
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Dear Manas
I love..love your post
I want to give you a rose
But you are a man....no flower
I/think/I/should/give/you/a song
I/hope/may/be/you/want/to/sing/along
You/know?/my brother/gave/me/ this/cute/fun/song!!

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SDC
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by SDC »

kirk5a wrote:I think it's more fun to figure out how to skillfully respond to rudeness than it is to tell others to stop being rude. Or, to figure out how to not be rude myself. Or, figure out how to respond when someone perceives what I said as rude, when I didn't mean to be rude. Anyway, the only gains I can see happening are by "being the change you wish to see."

But really, I don't see that much of a problem on DhammaWheel that needs all that much fixing really. I guess others have a different perception of the atmosphere here. The moderators do a great job of taking care of the stuff that crosses the line, and the rest I chalk up to the imperfections of human behavior. Which leaves the bulk of it, which I think is just fine - welcoming, accepting of different viewpoints and levels of familiarity with the Dhamma and so forth.
:goodpost:
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alan
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by alan »

The best way to be nice is to speak directly to the point.
Niceness is good, but understanding is better. If everyone cloaked themselves in a veil of niceness, we'd be like an Asian society, where you just can't figure out what people really mean, because they are always smiling.

This isn't a monastery or a meditation retreat, its a forum. In forums, we exchange ideas, thoughts and opinions.
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yawares
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by yawares »

BlackBird wrote:There's nothing more detrimental to the overall health and longevity of a discussion forum than an unwelcoming atmosphere, caused by a bunch of people that see it as their duty to shoot down and destroy any view that doesn't accord with their own. I've seen it happen to more than one place, and I'd hate to see it happen here. We should endeavour to cultivate harmony here on the board. It's one thing to wish for someone's happiness, it's another thing altogether to take action to try and make it so.

metta
Jack
---------------
Dear BlackBird
Once I wrote the truth
About certain kind of people
I was punished so bad I did lose
The right to post pictures for two days
My post was removed..they didn't approve
I learned my hard lessons... that even the truth
If unkind..if hurting people..not make things smooth
Then I better forget the truth....I must learn only to be good!!!

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Cittasanto
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by Cittasanto »

People will read into things what they will, no-one can please everyone, and treating newcomers with kids gloves or with some special niceness is fake and only infantilizes newcomers.

Some people are pointed, and others will interpret this in various ways. This perception of rudeness is at times for no other reason than how people communicate. Yet I would say fallacious arguments are far ruder, and these can be put in the nicest possible way.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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DNS
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by DNS »

BlackBird wrote: There's nothing more detrimental to the overall health and longevity of a discussion forum than an unwelcoming atmosphere, caused by a bunch of people that see it as their duty to shoot down and destroy any view that doesn't accord with their own. We should endeavour to cultivate harmony here on the board. It's one thing to wish for someone's happiness, it's another thing altogether to take action to try and make it so.
For the most part, I agree with your post, to a large extent, but there is also this point by alan I agree with:
alan wrote: This isn't a monastery or a meditation retreat, its a forum. In forums, we exchange ideas, thoughts and opinions.
This is a forum and there are bound to be some debates and disagreements. It is not an encyclopedia where people come and get info and move along. It is interactive and includes discussion on an almost infinite amount of topics (from cittānupassanā to circumcision) :tongue: However, debating can be done with courtesy and politeness, but it cannot always be done harmoniously and with everyone agreeing with each other all the time. An example might be someone who comes and is sure that the Buddha was a God or that he worshiped a Creator-God and that he taught Atman. This is a Buddhist board, so there are bound to be those (and there should be) who will set the record straight.

On other less obvious doctrinal issues, where there are many diverging views within Buddhism, then of course I agree people should not cling too much and exercise more caution and gentleness, which for the most part people have been doing.
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by yawares »

[quote="Cittasanto"]People will read into things what they will, no-one can please everyone, and treating newcomers with kids gloves or with some special niceness is fake and only infantilizes newcomers.
quote]
-----------
Dear Cittasanto

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Re: being nicer on here

Post by Cittasanto »

yawares wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:People will read into things what they will, no-one can please everyone, and treating newcomers with kids gloves or with some special niceness is fake and only infantilizes newcomers.
quote]
-----------
Dear Cittasanto

Disco Duck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxf2KCSyvgQ

yawares :thinking:
:jumping: reminds me of the movie howard the duck
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Sarnath
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by Sarnath »

Namaste

A Forum is more approximate to a Satsang and not a book.

As a satsang, it is more aligned with what the Buddha exampled in bringing Buddhahood Marga to others.

Isn't it true that the Buddha did not sit out in a park under trees and with birds and deer and human souls, He did not then slap down a book on the grass and say "read". He gave satsang, and those assembled heard, asked, asked others wbat they heard, and the Buddha exampled the behaviour of satsang and showed the example.

Isn't a forum an amazing assemble of satsang and a chance to example the satsang of Lord Buddha?

That is why it is better than a book for aspirants. Those who Know can be leaders of satsang, and those who do not know such as myself will want to sit with you and the assemblage. The forum is like a park or a garden where even deer are not afraid to gather. Or it can be like a zoo, and perhaps the deer do not want to stay for very long.

I do not understand rudeness ever from those who are leaders in satsang. Where and who was rude makes a huge difference to "newbies" such as myself.

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