I think it makes sense to read this as having overcome those qualities before what is described in the rest of the sentence. Thank you, Sam Vara! So is it possible to translate that pali as: "After one overcomes covetousness and grief in this world ( loke abhijjhādomanassaṃ ), one remains focu...

Hello all, I have a pali question. In Satipatthana suttas it says " Idha bhikkhave bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassī [alex: and other 3] viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṃ [/u]" Does " vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṃ " refer to what happens prior to kāye kāyān...

Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:39 pm

Alex123 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:38 pm

Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:34 pm A tree being dependent and independent at the same time

It is not.

So which is it. Dependent or independent?

I answered it before.

Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:34 pm A tree being dependent and independent at the same time

It is not.

Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:29 pm

Alex123 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:27 pm

Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:27 pm

So it has an independent existence

from your mind.

So a tree has both a dependent and independent nature. This is a contradiction, and is what the Jains teach.

It is not a contradiction as I have explained it to you because contradiction requires two mutually exclusive statements.

Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:27 pm

Alex123 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:25 pm

Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:52 pm

So how is it independent of mind?

It doesn't require existence of your mind to exist.

So it has an independent existence

from your mind.

Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:52 pm

Alex123 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:51 pm

Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:41 pm

Yet you say it also has an independent nature. Emptiness is the absence of that in all things.

It does not have independent nature. It is 100% dependent. Full stop.

So how is it independent of mind?

It doesn't require existence of your mind.

So it has a dependent nature and an independent one. This is a contradiction, and is a doctrine of the Jains. It doesn't. It is fully dependent on conditions, not independent. Not solipsism/idealism. Yet you say it also has an independent nature. Emptiness is the absence of that in all things. It d...

sphairos wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 2:39 pm Hi Alex123.

There is a new very thorough book on momentariness in Theravāda (under the supervision of R. Gethin):

https://uvhw.de/files/3_uvHW_Leseproben ... SAMPLE.pdf

Thank you!

So a tree is part dependent, part independent? Sounds like Jainism to me. It is fully dependent on its conditions, but not on consciousness. In other words, you can't through imagination will it into existence . So it has a dependent nature and an independent one. This is a contradiction, and is a ...

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Ceisiwr wrote: What do we mean when we say something is real? For the average worldly person they mean said thing has objective existence, i.e. independent existence "The tree exists independently of observers". Also interesting to note the inherent contradiction here. People will claim t...